Comments on: Why the world is not reached for Christ yet http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet/ Rantings of a Jesus-loving, raving lunatic Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:15:52 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Jeremy http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-133372 Jeremy Thu, 02 Jul 2009 03:13:06 +0000 http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet#comment-133372 Greg, what do you teach about baptism? Greg, what do you teach about baptism?

]]> By: Dean Lusk http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-131863 Dean Lusk Thu, 18 Jun 2009 12:50:56 +0000 http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet#comment-131863 Greg, Excellent post.For nearly a year now I've meant to link to it and have forgotten or procrastinated. Until today. Good word. http://deanlusk.blogspot.com/2009/06/why-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet.html Dean Lusk Greg,

Excellent post.For nearly a year now I’ve meant to link to it and have forgotten or procrastinated. Until today. Good word.

http://deanlusk.blogspot.com/2009/06/why-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet.html

Dean Lusk

]]> By: Steve http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-48778 Steve Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:22:35 +0000 http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet#comment-48778 Greg, I was listening to D2S Uncensored: Kaboom! The explosive power of the Gospel message. At 8:18 you reference Galatians 3:27 but quote Galatians 3:26, interesting slip. Especially since 27 says "for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ" And the two together give us this Galatians 3:26-27 (NIV) 26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. It gives us Paul writing to believers with the belief that all believers were baptized into Christ, that is they CLOTHED THEMSELVES with Christ. They are all sons of God through faith, why because they have clothed themselves in Christ through baptism. As you teach on D2S Uncensored look at the verses around the verses referenced to see if it fits. Greg,

I was listening to D2S Uncensored:
Kaboom! The explosive power of the Gospel message.
At 8:18 you reference Galatians 3:27 but quote Galatians 3:26, interesting slip.
Especially since 27 says “for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ”

And the two together give us this

Galatians 3:26-27 (NIV)
26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

It gives us Paul writing to believers with the belief that all believers were baptized into Christ, that is they CLOTHED THEMSELVES with Christ. They are all sons of God through faith, why because they have clothed themselves in Christ through baptism.

As you teach on D2S Uncensored look at the verses around the verses referenced to see if it fits.

]]> By: Steve http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-45245 Steve Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:21:39 +0000 http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet#comment-45245 Greg, "But you never answered my original question. Why isn’t baptism mentioned as a requirement for salvation EVERY TIME faith is mentioned as a requirement for salvation." Ok, that is an easy one, for the same reason Faith is not mentioned every time other things are mentioned, baptism, repentance (changing your life). For example Acts 2:37-38. Faith is assumed and maybe implied but not mentioned. Acts 22:14-16. Paul is told to "Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name" faith is not mentioned: on Paul's Part, he is told he will be a servant of God and therefore do this. Paul may come down hard on those who wanted to put believers under the old testament law (circumcision) but when he writes to believers he also assumes all believers are baptized believers (Romans 6:3-4; Galatians 3:26-27), the act we are commanded by the Lord Jesus Christ to both under take (Mark 16:16) as a sign of belief and Do (Matthew 28:19-20) to believers as a sign of belief. As I recall from GOSPEL Journey (and discussion on the new one) you also make it clear believe in Jesus and grace of God is the only way, at the exclusion of any other way. So they must do something first, give up their belief in other things to accept Christ as the only way (sounds like action on our part). After all they cant be a Buddhist and a Christian Right! Christ says give it all up come to me (take action and believe). If you want to push the we do nothing adage then why not become a Calvinist and say truly there is nothing we can do and God chose those who go to heaven before time began (and those going to hell) and we have no choice. You see faith is an action, accepting/believing in Christ is an action, it is something we do on our part to accept the grace. Free will gives us the choice to accept or reject God, but to accept it we need to take action, believe, have faith, repent and be baptized. If baptism is nothing in the life of a believer the why did Peter say it is what saves us, why did Paul assume all believers were baptized, why did Christ COMMAND it, do it and send his Disciples out to do it? If it has nothing to do with salvation then why bring it up at all? Understanding that Jesus is God, that he died on the Cross for our sins, and that he was raised on the third day is not enough. We must accept the grace of God, what does that look like? Acts 2:38; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:14-41; Acts 8:5-13; Acts 8:35-39; Acts 10:34-38; Acts 16:30-34; Romans 10:9 Believe, Repent, Confess, Baptized And since you mentioned Galatians lets not forget: Galatians 3:26-27 (NIV) 26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Wow, if that does not tie faith and baptism together for you I don't know what more to do. Now that I got carried away I need to add that faith is the first and most important step as the rest does not happen with out it. Teaching youth this and how to share their faith is what D2S is great at. I have been to several events and both my children have been to at least two events each. Don't let anything I ramble about take away from the work you do. Loved "Venti Jesus Please" Greg,
“But you never answered my original question. Why isn’t baptism mentioned as a requirement for salvation EVERY TIME faith is mentioned as a requirement for salvation.”

Ok, that is an easy one, for the same reason Faith is not mentioned every time other things are mentioned, baptism, repentance (changing your life). For example Acts 2:37-38. Faith is assumed and maybe implied but not mentioned. Acts 22:14-16. Paul is told to “Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name” faith is not mentioned: on Paul’s Part, he is told he will be a servant of God and therefore do this.
Paul may come down hard on those who wanted to put believers under the old testament law (circumcision) but when he writes to believers he also assumes all believers are baptized believers (Romans 6:3-4; Galatians 3:26-27), the act we are commanded by the Lord Jesus Christ to both under take (Mark 16:16) as a sign of belief and Do (Matthew 28:19-20) to believers as a sign of belief.

As I recall from GOSPEL Journey (and discussion on the new one) you also make it clear believe in Jesus and grace of God is the only way, at the exclusion of any other way. So they must do something first, give up their belief in other things to accept Christ as the only way (sounds like action on our part). After all they cant be a Buddhist and a Christian Right! Christ says give it all up come to me (take action and believe). If you want to push the we do nothing adage then why not become a Calvinist and say truly there is nothing we can do and God chose those who go to heaven before time began (and those going to hell) and we have no choice. You see faith is an action, accepting/believing in Christ is an action, it is something we do on our part to accept the grace. Free will gives us the choice to accept or reject God, but to accept it we need to take action, believe, have faith, repent and be baptized.
If baptism is nothing in the life of a believer the why did Peter say it is what saves us, why did Paul assume all believers were baptized, why did Christ COMMAND it, do it and send his Disciples out to do it? If it has nothing to do with salvation then why bring it up at all?
Understanding that Jesus is God, that he died on the Cross for our sins, and that he was raised on the third day is not enough. We must accept the grace of God, what does that look like? Acts 2:38; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:14-41; Acts 8:5-13; Acts 8:35-39; Acts 10:34-38; Acts 16:30-34; Romans 10:9
Believe, Repent, Confess, Baptized

And since you mentioned Galatians lets not forget:
Galatians 3:26-27 (NIV)
26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Wow, if that does not tie faith and baptism together for you I don’t know what more to do.

Now that I got carried away I need to add that faith is the first and most important step as the rest does not happen with out it. Teaching youth this and how to share their faith is what D2S is great at. I have been to several events and both my children have been to at least two events each. Don’t let anything I ramble about take away from the work you do.

Loved “Venti Jesus Please”

]]> By: Greg http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-44735 Greg Mon, 21 Jan 2008 13:58:55 +0000 http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet#comment-44735 Hey Steve, No the book of John is one of the 66 but it is the only one of the 66 written directly to unbelievers. But it's not just the book of John that mentions faith alone as the sole requirement for salvation. Check out Galatians and Romans. In Acts 10:44 the newly believing Gentiles had received the Spirit of God through faith BEFORE they had been baptized. Peter says "what prevents these from being baptized? They have received the Spirit...." According to Ephesians 1:13,14 receiving the Spirit happens only after someone puts their faith in Jesus. But you never answered my original question. Why isn't baptism mentioned as a requirement for salvation EVERY TIME faith is mentioned as a requirement for salvation (not just in the book of John but throughout the New Testament and throughout most of Jesus' gospel presentations) if it is a separate step? Remember the entire book of Galatians was written to those who wanted to add one work (circumcision) to the free gift of grace. Try re-reading the book of Galatians and mentally inserting water baptism everytime circumcision is mentioned. Paul comes down hard on those who add anything to the free gift of God's grace. I have interpretive explanations for every passage that you mentioned but don't have time to break it all down online. If you are seriously interested in knowing how I would interpret these passages I suggest you check out The Bible Knowledge Commentary (New Testament) for an idea of where I would lie on these passages. They do a better job than I could online in the short time I have to respond (and with my limited brain capacity!) In closing it's interesting to me Steve that during the GOSPEL Journey we identified "the way of work verses the way of grace" as a defining mark of Christianity verses every other world religion. From Buddhism to Hinduism to Mormonism to Islam to Judaism human effort toward the goal of "being good enough" is always what gets a person to heaven or to Nirvana. Christianity is the only belief system that is the way of grace, trusting instead of trying, receiving a free gift through faith alone that has been purchased by the blood of the Lamb. So why do I seek to serve God with all of my heart? Because of this same grace! Anyway, thanks for the dialogue! Hey Steve, No the book of John is one of the 66 but it is the only one of the 66 written directly to unbelievers. But it’s not just the book of John that mentions faith alone as the sole requirement for salvation. Check out Galatians and Romans. In Acts 10:44 the newly believing Gentiles had received the Spirit of God through faith BEFORE they had been baptized. Peter says “what prevents these from being baptized? They have received the Spirit….” According to Ephesians 1:13,14 receiving the Spirit happens only after someone puts their faith in Jesus.

But you never answered my original question. Why isn’t baptism mentioned as a requirement for salvation EVERY TIME faith is mentioned as a requirement for salvation (not just in the book of John but throughout the New Testament and throughout most of Jesus’ gospel presentations) if it is a separate step? Remember the entire book of Galatians was written to those who wanted to add one work (circumcision) to the free gift of grace. Try re-reading the book of Galatians and mentally inserting water baptism everytime circumcision is mentioned. Paul comes down hard on those who add anything to the free gift of God’s grace. I have interpretive explanations for every passage that you mentioned but don’t have time to break it all down online. If you are seriously interested in knowing how I would interpret these passages I suggest you check out The Bible Knowledge Commentary (New Testament) for an idea of where I would lie on these passages. They do a better job than I could online in the short time I have to respond (and with my limited brain capacity!)

In closing it’s interesting to me Steve that during the GOSPEL Journey we identified “the way of work verses the way of grace” as a defining mark of Christianity verses every other world religion. From Buddhism to Hinduism to Mormonism to Islam to Judaism human effort toward the goal of “being good enough” is always what gets a person to heaven or to Nirvana. Christianity is the only belief system that is the way of grace, trusting instead of trying, receiving a free gift through faith alone that has been purchased by the blood of the Lamb. So why do I seek to serve God with all of my heart? Because of this same grace!

Anyway, thanks for the dialogue!

]]> By: Steve http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-44556 Steve Mon, 21 Jan 2008 03:32:28 +0000 http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet#comment-44556 Greg, Wow, the book of John is all we need and we can through the rest of the Bible out? Interesting thought about the book of John being complete, and I understand your point. With that thought you would then say Peter (The Rock) added to the Gospel when he said Repent and be baptized to be saved (Acts 2:38), Paul added to the gospel when he said believe and confess because it is confession that saves us (Romans 10:9). Peter again added to the gospel when he said that baptism saves us (1 Peter 3:21). And last but not least Jesus added to the Gospel when he said to be saved you must believe and be baptized (Mark 16:16). No I don't want to take away from the book of John, but what about the other books of the new testament, are you throwing them out. And what about the examples set for us in the early church in the book of Acts, do we through that out as well. Again in the book of John I go back to the idea that Jesus was baptized and he sent his disciples out to baptize. If this was not important then why is it included in the book of John? It is include for our example to follow. So I don't believe it was left out of the book of John at all. God Bless, Brother. Greg,
Wow, the book of John is all we need and we can through the rest of the Bible out?
Interesting thought about the book of John being complete, and I understand your point.

With that thought you would then say Peter (The Rock) added to the Gospel when he said Repent and be baptized to be saved (Acts 2:38), Paul added to the gospel when he said believe and confess because it is confession that saves us (Romans 10:9). Peter again added to the gospel when he said that baptism saves us (1 Peter 3:21). And last but not least Jesus added to the Gospel when he said to be saved you must believe and be baptized (Mark 16:16).

No I don’t want to take away from the book of John, but what about the other books of the new testament, are you throwing them out.
And what about the examples set for us in the early church in the book of Acts, do we through that out as well.

Again in the book of John I go back to the idea that Jesus was baptized and he sent his disciples out to baptize. If this was not important then why is it included in the book of John? It is include for our example to follow. So I don’t believe it was left out of the book of John at all.

God Bless, Brother.

]]> By: Greg http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-43826 Greg Sat, 19 Jan 2008 14:42:49 +0000 http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet#comment-43826 The verse actually says, "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder." The demons believe there is one God. There is a huge difference between that and what Jesus is commanding in John 3:16, "whoever believes in him will not perish but has eternal life." It's faith in a fact (there is one God) verses faith in a person. Demons don't put their faith in Christ for the salvation of their souls. Since you left me with a question I'll leave you with one. If salvation required more than faith in the person of Christ then why would the book of John (the only book of the Bible written to an unbelieving audience according to John 20:31) give the command to believe 98x's and not require turning from sin, water baptism or anything else as a prerequisite for salvation. I'm sure you don't believe the apostle John preached an incomplete gospel do you? The verse actually says, “You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.” The demons believe there is one God. There is a huge difference between that and what Jesus is commanding in John 3:16, “whoever believes in him will not perish but has eternal life.” It’s faith in a fact (there is one God) verses faith in a person. Demons don’t put their faith in Christ for the salvation of their souls. Since you left me with a question I’ll leave you with one. If salvation required more than faith in the person of Christ then why would the book of John (the only book of the Bible written to an unbelieving audience according to John 20:31) give the command to believe 98x’s and not require turning from sin, water baptism or anything else as a prerequisite for salvation. I’m sure you don’t believe the apostle John preached an incomplete gospel do you?

]]> By: Steve http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-43685 Steve Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:06:42 +0000 http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet#comment-43685 Greg, Sorry for the late follow up, computer issues. So I leave with the question you did not answer. What is the difference between the faith of a believer and the faith of the demons? James says (James 2:19) even the demons believe. So what is the difference between us (believers/the saved) and them (demons) if believing is all you need? Greg, Sorry for the late follow up, computer issues.

So I leave with the question you did not answer. What is the difference between the faith of a believer and the faith of the demons? James says (James 2:19) even the demons believe. So what is the difference between us (believers/the saved) and them (demons) if believing is all you need?

]]> By: Greg http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-42618 Greg Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:43:17 +0000 http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet#comment-42618 Thanks James. I appreciate your complement (blush). But be assured I'm the farthest thing from a universalist. Jesus said he is "the way and the truth and the life" and the no one comes to the Father except through him. He is the only way of salvation. And I do believe that as soon as someone puts their faith in Jesus he begins to transform them from the inside out. As Romans 8 reminds us "those who are not led by the Spirit of God are not the sons of God." God's Spirit is leading a revolution of change in the heart of every true believer. If we resist that revolution then we are disciplined as disobedient children (Hebrews 12:6). If we allow God's Spirit to transform us then we are conformed to the image of God's Son. Revolution or retribution (in the sense of intensified divine discipline on wayward "sons and daughters of God" Hebrews 10:26-31) are the only options for those have put their faith in Jesus. Thanks James. I appreciate your complement (blush). But be assured I’m the farthest thing from a universalist. Jesus said he is “the way and the truth and the life” and the no one comes to the Father except through him. He is the only way of salvation. And I do believe that as soon as someone puts their faith in Jesus he begins to transform them from the inside out. As Romans 8 reminds us “those who are not led by the Spirit of God are not the sons of God.” God’s Spirit is leading a revolution of change in the heart of every true believer. If we resist that revolution then we are disciplined as disobedient children (Hebrews 12:6). If we allow God’s Spirit to transform us then we are conformed to the image of God’s Son. Revolution or retribution (in the sense of intensified divine discipline on wayward “sons and daughters of God” Hebrews 10:26-31) are the only options for those have put their faith in Jesus.

]]> By: James http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet/comment-page-1/#comment-42555 James Sun, 13 Jan 2008 06:39:29 +0000 http://www.gregstier.org/rants/why-the-world-is-not-reached-for-christ-yet#comment-42555 Hey, thanks for taking the time to post anything. I just sat down about twenty minutes ago myself to see if any responses were here. I had a long day of fun. We took the youth group out of the Phoenix valley area and up to the mountains for a day in the snow. When we came back I had to get both church vans washed. Then I ran home, changed, and went and played two softball games. Afterwards, I stopped by the church for two hours to finish up some video announcements for tomorrow morning. When I got home, my wife and daughter were already in bed and I vegged out watching some news. Getting on the net was my last stop to bed. But, I saw you posted and so here I am. My wife and I thoroughly enjoy your speaking and conferences. You are one of our favorite speakers (and we've seen many). And this exchange doesn't change a thing about my opinion (even though you sound so much like my universalist friends :) They are friends, and I'd like to think we are too, even though you have no clue who I am. Blessings! Hey, thanks for taking the time to post anything. I just sat down about twenty minutes ago myself to see if any responses were here. I had a long day of fun. We took the youth group out of the Phoenix valley area and up to the mountains for a day in the snow. When we came back I had to get both church vans washed. Then I ran home, changed, and went and played two softball games. Afterwards, I stopped by the church for two hours to finish up some video announcements for tomorrow morning. When I got home, my wife and daughter were already in bed and I vegged out watching some news. Getting on the net was my last stop to bed. But, I saw you posted and so here I am.

My wife and I thoroughly enjoy your speaking and conferences. You are one of our favorite speakers (and we’ve seen many). And this exchange doesn’t change a thing about my opinion (even though you sound so much like my universalist friends :) They are friends, and I’d like to think we are too, even though you have no clue who I am. Blessings!

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