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    The crazy cousin we keeped locked in the basement

    Posted on Sunday 15 February 2009 by Greg @ 8:47 am
    Filed under: Rants

    Are we keeping our crazy cousin locked in the basement? Are we are afraid that if we let him out he will ruin our party? After all, everyone is dressed in their Sunday best at this shindig. The cake is delicious, the punch is sweet and the fellowship is great.

    If we allow our fiery, spastic, and kind-of-crazy-meets-kooky cousin out of his “space” he will not only crash our party, he’ll ruin it. He will put his hands in the cake and pour the punch on our pure white foyer carpets. He may start a fire in the middle of the room, after all, he’s a pyro. That’s why we locked him up to begin with.

    On the other hand, if we let him out he will have everybody’s full attention. Boredom will disappear completely as every well cultured eye will be riveted to him, waiting for his next twitch. He will add an element of much needed danger and discomfort to our over programmed and immensely predictable party that we call church.

    I say that we need to be disrupted.

    And there’s nothing that can disrupt a pious party like the doctrine of hell.

    It makes me cringe when I hear well manicured preachers preach well manufactured sermons that gloss over the impending danger boiling deep underneath our church basements. If we could but catch a glimpse of the blaze to come everything would change. We would change and so would our priorities.

    If we really believed in the reality of hell it would transform how we do church. We would relentlessly give the call to our congregations, our small groups, Sunday school classes, youth groups and children’s ministry to rescue the perishing. Yes, I just used the word “perishing”.

    I guess the question I have is this, do we really believe in hell? Do we really believe that if people die without Jesus they will spend an eternity there? Do we really believe that we have the “cure” that can rescue lost souls from the hell they are headed to and the one they may be going through today?

    Jesus talked about the crazy cousin more than anyone else in the New Testament. Jesus unlocked the basement door and let the party pooper out on several occasions. As a matter of fact of the 12 times the word “hell” (“Gehenna” in the Greek) is mentioned, 11 are mentioned by Jesus.

    Was he using scare tactics? Of course he was! The same kind of scare tactics I use on my four year old daughter if she runs out toward oncoming traffic. We’re talking scare tactics motivated out of sheer love for others.

    Does this mean that we preach “hell fire and brimstone” to those around us? No. It does mean though that we have a “hell fire and brimstone” motivation blazing in our hearts as we pray, pursue and persuade those around us, not only about the judgment to come but the audacity of ultimate hope that is rooted only in the person and work of Jesus Christ.

    Let’s let our cousin out of the basement. Let’s let him ruin our party. Let’s let his presence change our churches and our communities one rescued perishing soul at a time.

    Signed, Greg Stier
    15 Comments

    15 Comments for 'The crazy cousin we keeped locked in the basement'

    1. On February 15, 2009 @ 9:44 am jeremy zach said:
      • A couple of points regarding your doctrine of Hell post.

        First, I find it ironic that Jesus only talked about Hell 11 times in three years. I think Jesus was more upset with religiosity than He was about Hell. To me 11 times is not a lot. I think Jesus talks more about living a full life now as a Kingdom of God follower than He does about the fires of Hell.

        Second, I don’t think Jesus’ main point was Hell; as we can see in His limited usage. Jesus made a lot of points and I think sometimes us (youth workers) only focus on the point we think is the ONLY point. Jesus talks a lot about the being the Kingdom of God, reconciliation, loving enemies, forgiveness, righteousness, try to heal people, don’t be angry, bless, serve, and love people, etc… As a good reader of the NT we need to be careful about how we emphasize Jesus’ points. I think it is more damaging to scare kids into the Kingdom, (which is forceful and not natural and unbiblical) so we as the preacher can feel great about ourselves that we are preaching a “tough” doctrine.

        Third, we have to admit the doctrine of Hell is a bit odd, complex, and confusing. Why? Because scholars have two completely different understanding of it and our church fathers have wrestled with how to interpret HELL (Greek: Gehenna and Hebrew: SHEOL). In addition, Hell for the NT is way different than how the OT talks about SHEOL/Gehenna (Hell). Hell for the Greeks was this shallow and dark place (hades). The way the Greek understands Hell is very similar to how 21st century Evangelicalism understand it. Hebrews see SHEOL as a place south of Jerusalem. SHEOL is a place of torment or the underworld.

        Fourth, when describing Hell we need to use imagery and metaphor in our language, not literal language. I am always confused when trying to literally describe Hell. Revelation talks about the lake of fire, but it as describes how Hell is going to be dark. How can Hell be dark but have burning fires?
        Needless to say, Hell is going to be horrible, eternal, and lonely. So before we preach fire and brimstone, we need to deeply consider the nature of human choice and the nature of Divine love.

        Hell is a bad place and God does not put people in Hell, people put themselves in Hell.
        It is not for us to understand it or explain it but rather avoid it.
        Think about this: if Jesus willingly died for us to avoid it, hell must be one terrifying experience!

        Ezek 18:23: I take no delight in the destruction of the wicked. So therefore we as preachers shouldn’t pride ourselves on who is and isn’t preaching the doctrine of Hell.
        According to Jesus’ method and teachings, I would argue we talk about Hell about 15% of the time because that is about how much He talked about it.

        Lastly, if we let the party pooper (namely Hell) into the room we the party starter (preacher) better know how to exegetically and theological articulate the doctrine of Hell.

        In my experience it seems like whenever a preacher begins to talk about Hell, they become fueled with anger and rage, which is the antithesis of who God is. Jesus only got angry at the over religious people and the disciples because they were stopping the children from running to Jesus.

        Reply to this comment

        Greg Reply:
        February 15th, 2009 at 11:13 pm

        Thanks for your post Jeremy. Just so you know I am not fueld with anger or rage. My heart is broken over those who are living through hell (in this life) and going to hell (in the next life.) I don’t know how people make it on this side of eternity without Jesus and can’t imagine what it will be like on the other side of eternity.

        I am so broken hearted over the plight of those who are going to hell that I have and will continue to dedicate my life to rescue people from it’s flames and into the eternal hope of Jesus…as I’m sure you have too.

        This is a good discussion and there is a balance in it. I’m sure you agree. Thanks again for your response.

        Reply to this comment

        jeremy zach Reply:
        February 16th, 2009 at 9:53 am

        Hey Greg I appreciate your feedback and clarification.

        I think always talking about Hell is exhausting (psychologically) not only for the hearers but for the preachers. Where is the hope in a message that kills genuine motivation to move into Kingdom action? Hearing “You are Going to Hell” again and again hijacks the ability to really believe that we are co-labors with God.

        Also we have to realize students are already “thinking” they are living in Hell, NOW (here on earth). So a common response from a non-believer would be: “If I am going to Hell….Hey, it cannot get any worst, right?”

        Bottom line: The Kingdom is so much bigger than the doctrine of Hell. The Kingdom is not a one issue driven movement. Jesus’ main message was not Hell.

        Lets be honest preaching Jesus means we are always letting the cousin out of the basement. In your post it seems like you are alienating and elevating the doctrine of Hell as the big-bad tough guy-doctrine. I gathered from your post that if a preacher is preaching Hell, then they are really preaching and the “other” preachers are worthless and weak. I would argue that what defines a tough preacher is a preacher who can talk about the ways of Jesus and actually live it and be with and commune with the people they are preaching to.

        Lastly, when you preach the doctrine of Hell you may need to present the different perspectives of Hell. Have you read Four Views on Hell? Essentially there are four scholars who present their view of how they see Hell (all views are Biblical). Let’s be honest, Hell is a confusing concept. If we are scaring kids with the doctrine of Hell, we better know what we are describing and theologizing.
        In the four views:
        John Walvoord argues that Hell is a literal place of smoke and flames.
        William Crockett defends a metaphorical view, punishment but not necessarily literal fire.
        Clark Pinnock presents conditional immortality – punishment but not forever. God puts them out of their misery.
        Zachary Hayes explains Hell the concept of purgatory.

        Greg I appreciate your passion and Kingdom force you bring. You are in the full time business of preaching heaven or hell. So may you do it with such gentleness, humbleness, peace, and grace.

        Reply to this comment

        Nicholas Reply:
        February 17th, 2009 at 10:49 am

        How on earth can all four of those views be Biblical? That would mean that hell is a literal, metaphorical place of smoke and flames that does not include fire and lasts forever but ends at some point; the souls in hell have no hope of escape–except that they will either be annihilated or eventually enter heaven.

        Jeremy, I think the guy with the bullhorn yelling at people does do a lot of harm. I think the preacher who doesn’t warn about hell does a lot of harm. More than them, however, the preacher who says, “God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life” has done untold harm to the cause of Christ in the last 100 years. You need to read “The Way of the Master” by Ray Comfort. He gives a thoroughly biblical way of presenting the gospel that includes law, judgment, hell and the gospel. Modern evangelistic methods have and are failing to make true converts (9 of 10 fall away, most never even end up going to church) and it’s high time we included the reality of hell in our message with real heartfelt concern for their souls. If your mother was driving down the road that ended with a cliff you would warn her about the cliff, not tell her about “the wonderful other road.” She needs to be warned about the danger so she will be persuaded to take the other road that doesn’t end in a cliff. She needs to be convinced of the danger she is in.

        “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.” Prov. 1:7

        “Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men…” 2 Cor. 5:11

        Jeff Reply:
        February 17th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

        Greg,

        Our Company would be interested in donating a portion of our profits to your organization. We would like to do so through your newsletter or website. Any sale we make for being featured on one or the other we will give say 20% of our profit. It,s a way to raise money while people are buying services they already would buy. if this is of interest to you feel free to email me anytime.

        Thanks,

        Jeff

        Reply to this comment

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    2. On February 16, 2009 @ 7:02 am jesusrox24 said:
      • One of the most confusing thing in the bible to me relates to hell. Why is it that God can get rid of the evil in man, but not in Satan. How come killing him when Jesus comes again is the only way? I just can’t seem to grasp that he’s so evil that he can’t be helped at all. Was Satan always evil, surely God tried to save his soul just like he saves ours? What if a human becomes that evil, is there no way out for them? Sorry for bombarding you with questions and all, but I want to know what to say the next time someone asks me this while I’m telling them about Jesus, because right know I have no clue.

        Reply to this comment

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    3. On February 16, 2009 @ 2:31 pm Adam said:
      • Greg,

        I love this post, I’ve heard you preach for 4 years now, and you have been such a spirital leader in my life. Thank you so much.
        I feel that more churches today are too scared to talked about Hell because they might lose members, or scare people away from the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We all share our faith differently, but one day the question of hell is going to be brought up and we have to deal with that. Hell is a literal place, our Lord would not talk about it in such a way if it was just something to put on the backburner. Oh we will talk about it if it is brought up, but don’t worry about it. I don’t understand that. It’s like we have turned Jesus into this fun loving, give everyone a hug kinda guy. Where did we lose that fact that he is God. Sometimes we forget his Power, and majesty. It’s like Jesus is the biggest hippy ever (without the drugs)PEACE MAN.
        Now please don’t think I am not all about the Love of Christ. He gave his life so that I can life through him. I am an heir in God’s eyes. It was His love that forgave the world, and it is only belief in Christ alone that we can have eternal life. But where in the word does is say that we have to be passive Christians? Are we not mighty worriors of God? Hell is real, the devil is real. He is here to kill, steal and destroy you. Put on your armor and fight for the lives of people that have never heard of Jesus or his message, because there is another army fighting for the kingdom of the enemy.
        Excuse the rant….

        Reply to this comment

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    4. On February 17, 2009 @ 6:51 am Jay said:
      • Jeremy Zach, I wonder if you would be as confident to speak all that you wrote directly to the Lord Jesus Christ. I would be afraid to articulate those words to him and undermine his message about hell. Overall, your words sound like hell is no big deal and you would avoid talking about it focusing on love. Hell is very clearly taught and the words associated with it…fire, weeping, wailing, gnashing of teeth, torment, outer darkness, everlasting fire……I clearly understand all of those words. I don’t think we have to make this thing so difficult. Jesus didn’t, he warned of it, a lot, in plain language. Luke 16 scares the crap out of me and it should you and every hearer…..the rich man begging to get the word out to everybody that you don’t want to come here! The great preachers of the last several hundred years preached often of hell and there were great revivals. Some argue that we are a different society today and need a different message. I see a very lukewarm Christianity and a lack of preaching using words like sin, hell, etc. Hell has it’s place, as do the love of God and a relationship have their place in preaching, but we cannot soften or reduce the words of Jesus and the Bible on the subject. If there is no bad news (sin/hell/separation), the good news does not make sense, is unecessary, and unheeded.

        Thank you, Greg, for the post. Thank you always for being so bold and staying the course.

        Reply to this comment

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    5. On February 17, 2009 @ 9:55 am jeremy zach said:
      • @ Jay

        I wasn’t undermining the meaning of Hell, rather I was undermining the methodology, rhetoric, and tactics in which we present the topic of Hell.

        Hell is a big deal, (I never said that) however we give it a fair treatment in how we teach about it. There is a time and place.

        Bottom line….you and i are smoking different stuff and that is okay. We both are Bible believing Christians who deeply love Jesus, but who have different hermeneutic and eccelsiology, that is completely fine.

        I am just very cautious of your methods because I have seen it hurt so many people and completely turn them off to Christianity and the church. Your methods are a hit or mess. Either you are going to piss somebody off or you are going to get someone to repent. For example read Greg’s post about how he challenged the student to give his book to the barista. Well needless to say the barista rejected it and the student was left there feeling isolated and embarrassed. What do you think the chances are that barista is going to actually take a Christian and the church seriously? All that barista knows of Christians is the people who force their agenda on me.

        We think we are doing Jesus a favor by not being lukewarm, when in reality we are viewed as arrogant, judgmental, and insensitive jerks. Being a jerk doesn’t help out the Kingdom of God.

        Jay your critique is a valid one and there is some lukewarmness in the Church water, however that does not mean we be forceful and over intentional in how we communicate the message of Jesus. The two greatest commandments Jesus gave us: 1) Love God and 2) Love others and your enemies. That love word is the word agapeo, which essentially means to give it all up for. Love the unloveable..serve the unserved…..
        How about we simply love the lost because more than likely they have never really experienced an agapeo unconditional love. How can they (non-believers) understand the doctrine of Hell message when they have never been affirmed for who they are? They have always been told…you are a reject, you are an idoit, you are a failure…..

        Let us come alongside the lost and point them towards the beautiful cross. Lets leave the judging up to Jesus.

        Reply to this comment

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    6. On February 17, 2009 @ 11:11 am Jay said:
      • I guess my question is how do you point them to the cross if there is no reason to go to the cross? The Holy Spirit (John 16:8-11) convicts in the areas of sin, righteousness, and judgment (2/3 negative). We are safe to preach/teach God’s Word in the areas that the Spirit works, not our own ideas.

        By the same token, we must do so and demonstrate ourselves and the message lovingly, or we are just empty noise to them (1 Cor.13). We are to love God and love people, but that love motivates us to know God and serve him by sharing Christ, preaching Christ, preaching the whole truth from the Bible (in love). I just don’t think we can ignore the “crazy cousin” of hell and sin.

        Reply to this comment

        Adam Reply:
        February 17th, 2009 at 12:01 pm

        Amen!!

        Reply to this comment

        jeremy zach Reply:
        February 17th, 2009 at 3:06 pm

        @ Jay
        again, i never said we need to ignore it. i said we need to teach the doctrine of hell in moderation, like anything. Aristotle argued that balance and moderation are the keys to life.

        There is a reason why the crazy cousin is locked up in the basement–he is crazy, disruptive, and unpredictable so therefore we need to make sure everyone who will witness the crazy cousin is in the right frame of mind and place to experience the realities of the crazy cousin. If you have a headache, tired, stressed, and exhausted, I am not going to intentionally keep letting the crazy cousin in because you need to be with him.

        Essentially lets just be sensitive to our non-believing friends–that is all I am saying. We as Christians and preachers have nothing to prove.

        Lets be honest, if someone is fat they know it and everyone else around them knows it so why do we need to keep telling them over and over again that they are on the bigger side? The same thing goes for non-believers. The idea of Hell isn’t revolutionary. It isn’t rocket science. More than likely there is a pretty good reason that non-believer is intentionally not following Jesus, so therefore scaring them only make them resist Jesus even more.

        Lastly, we need to check our motives if we always have a hunch to preach the “doctrine of Hell”? Do you get life by being the Mr. Know it all? Do you get life telling people where they might go, when you don’t have a personal relationship with them? What is your intentionality of telling someone they are going to hell? Yes I know Jesus clearly say it i in the Bible, but how do you feel when you do it? Do you feel good? Do you feel liberated? Do you feel validated?
        Again we need to be cautious what is really driving us to tell people their future eternal destination? And who knows maybe our assumption may be wrong? We don’t have divine knowledge, so lets leave that up to him to be the judge of a person’s future eternity and heart.

        Reply to this comment

        Greg Reply:
        February 17th, 2009 at 9:07 pm

        Alright guys. It’s probably time we get back to work. It seems that this thread has reached it’s productiveness peak. It’s starting to get repetitive and a little accusatory. But thanks for all your input. Good stuff to consider.

        Let’s go out and share the good news of Jesus. Whether we share Jesus out of a rescue-them-from-hell, give-them-eternal-life or participate-in-the-kingdom motive, let’s just be faithful to share that awesome and life-transforming message.

        Thanks again everyone. Much to ponder.

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    7. On February 17, 2009 @ 1:54 pm Will said:
      • Good discussion, guys!
        I am nowhere near as studied as any of you. Heck, I had to look up ‘hermeneutic’ and ‘eccelsiology’ (ecclesiology) for the definitions.
        All I know is that Greg Stier is the messenger of God that showed me how to share the Greatest News Ever Told in a Loving, non-aggressive way. He’s also a guy who instructs believers to measure all teachings to the Standard of God’s Word – yet, not him but God’s Holy Word, Which Tells us, “1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.” – 1 John 4:1-3

        I believe this applies to Jesus’ teachings as well.
        As an over-the-hill karate guy, I still remember what Bruce Lee said about our learning curve…

        “Before I studied the art, a punch to me was just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick no longer a kick. Now that I’ve understood the art, a punch is just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. It is the halfway cultivation that leads to ornamentation. Jeet Kune-Do is basically a sophisticated fighting style stripped to its essentials.” – Bruce Lee

        Why do we so many times over-analyze and intellectualize such simple teachings?
        To re-emphasize Lee,”It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. It is the halfway cultivation that leads to ornamentation. ”
        Jesus Christ Offers us a “sophisticated fighting style stripped down to its essentials” to battle the forces of darkness in this world and the lies Satan strategically feeds us every day. That ‘Essential’ was stripped, beaten, mocked, humiliated, crucified, dead and buried IN MY PLACE! And in His Resurrection He Has Already Given me Victory-His Victory-over death and hell and Satan that all believers share.
        In His Crazy Love…

        Reply to this comment

        Greg Stier Reply:
        February 17th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

        Wow Will. That is awesome. Let’s not overthink hell. Let us just recognize it and try to keep people out of it.

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