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Invincible Youth Ministry Conference Tour

My problem with HELL

Posted on Tuesday 9 January 2007 by Greg @ 11:49 am
Filed under: Rants

(WARNING: What you read may be inflammatory! Please read this longer than normal "rant" in its entirety before passing judgment.)

(WARNING2: I wrote this "rant" as a Stier Straight article almost two years ago. After reading a few articles about hell by some  ministry gurus out there I thought it may be time to unleash it once again. So what’s the warning2? None really I just like using the 2 when I can because it looks so cool!)

I have a confession to make that may surprise you. I have a serious problem with the doctrine of hell. It’s hard to imagine a loving God that would create an eternal place of suffering for sinners. Don’t get me wrong, I think that sinners should suffer at least some. But an eternity of agony in "fire and brimstone" for all those who happen not to be Christians? Come on!

It’s a lot easier to imagine hell as a place where people are not physically tortured but psychologically tormented until they regret and repent. Maybe at this point they are even given a second chance to respond to Christ. This kind of hell seems to have the best of both worlds, sinners are punished and then mercy is demonstrated. Perhaps the exception to this rule is the worst of the worst sinners. Those who commit mass murder in the name of some warped ideology like Hitler and Stalin could burn forever as far as I’m concerned.

Or maybe hell could be mere annihilation, eternal extinction of the soul if you will. When people are plunged into that infernal inferno it is a final purging of existence. Their slates are wiped clean and they cease to be. As horrible as that may sound, it is infinitely more fathomable than an eternal hell.

I have a problem with accepting a doctrine that condemns the sinner to a forever future without hope, without escape, without a second chance. To be honest, my heart begins to hurt and my brain starts to ache when I think about it. Questions flood my mind and question my convictions. Questions like how could a loving God send people to an eternity in fire and brimstone? And if God is so merciful why would he cause people to suffer for so long in such pain?

But no matter how many times I try to explain hell away or redefine and make it palatable to my puny brain, there it is in black and white again and again throughout the pages of the Bible. No matter how I try to imagine it away or tone it down one thing is clear, the Bible describes hell as for real and forever.

Jesus throws kerosene on the flames when he speaks so matter-of-factly about a literal hell. Did you know that the Son of God spoke more about hell than heaven? Of the nineteen times that hell is mentioned in the New Testament, twelve are mentioned by Jesus. And he never described hell as figurative, temporary, or anything less than horrific. Five different times he calls it a place of "weeping and gnashing of teeth." I’m not even sure what gnashing of teeth is but it doesn’t sound pleasant.

Speaking of unpleasant thoughts, check out these verses about hell:

"And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind." Isaiah 66:24

"But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 8:12

"He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power." 2 Thessalonians 1:8,9

"…he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night…." Revelation 14:10,11

The list of verses goes on and on and on. From the Old Testament to the New Testament, from prophets to the apostles to Jesus himself, hell is described with real and raw adjectives as your worst fears come true and then multiplied by infinity for eternity.

Here is where the troubling question rears its ugly head once again. How could a loving God send people who he created to suffer in an eternal hell?

And maybe that question is the problem. Oftentimes the 21st Century version of the Christian God is just loving instead of just and loving. The just part of God (that demands absolute justice, holiness, perfection) has been minimized and the loving part of God (that shows mercy, grace and forgiveness) has been maximized.

Part of the challenge is that there is a growing number of Christians who are attempting to paint their own picture of God with less fiery reds and more pastels. This is a cultural accommodation. To pacify a society that is in love with happy endings some believers have altered the Biblical theology of hell to something more palatable and less painful.

While most Christians believe in an eternal hell, they usually just don’t bring it up much. It is unpleasant and leads to too many questions about the character of God. Hell is that crazy doctrine that we keep locked in the basement of our belief systems. We all know that it is there, chained to the underbelly of the theology of the holiness of God, but we hope that it stays in the shadows and never comes up in conversation. Why? Because if people found out what we really believed they would think we were radicals, extremists, and kooks.

Or maybe they wouldn’t.

Perhaps it would confirm their deepest fears. Maybe it would bring to light thoughts that they try to keep locked in the inner recesses of their souls. Thoughts like, "What if there is an afterlife? What if there is a heaven and hell? Which one will I be going to when I die?"

A Rooftop Story

Before I was a preacher I was a roofer. And I remember one time I was roofing this Jiffy Lube with a crew of guys I had never worked with before. It was Friday afternoon and we were wrapping up the job. These guys couldn’t wait to start their weekend partying so that they could "get wasted and laid." As we were gathering our equipment up they asked me if I was looking forward to "getting some this weekend." I told them that my girlfriend (who is now my wife) and I were holding back with each other until we were married. They looked at me like I was crazy. They began to crack sarcastic comments and make fun of me.

I explained to these guys that I was a Christian and was trying to honor God with our relationship. That made it even worse. They poured the jokes on even more. Now usually I don’t take this tack but it was hot and I was tired so I decided to be a little more blunt with them than I usually am about the consequences of sin. The conversation went something like,

"You guys may laugh right now but you won’t be laughing later."

"What are you talking about preacher boy?"

"Because even now in the inner recesses of your hearts you know it’s true."

"What’s true?"

"There is a God and there is a final reckoning for everyone before this God."

"Bologna! Your full of _____!"

"Am I? Even now you can hear the distant footsteps of judgment coming ever closer. With every breath we take we are that much closer to giving account of our lives to a God who demands perfection."

"Shut up man! I mean it. SHUT UP!!!"

"I can tell you guys don’t want to hear this because you are afraid that I’m right on this. Down deep inside you know that there is a God, there is a judgment and there is an eternal hell."

"Shut up! I mean it shut up!"

By this time these two roofers were scared out of their wits and trying to pretend that they weren’t. It was then that I shared the gospel with them. Although they didn’t trust in Christ on the spot I’m sure that for the first time in their lives they thought deeply about their morality and their mortality.

At the end of our conversation they weren’t laughing any more. Impeding doom is just not that funny.

Our God is a holy God who lit the fires of hell with his hatred for sin. Our God is a loving God who sent his own Son to die on a cross so that we wouldn’t have to go there. And therein lays the paradox of the gospel message and of the Christian God, not just loving but just and loving.

So it turns out that my problem with hell is my own problem. The Bible has no problem with it, nor does Jesus. So I must accept the doctrine even though it grates against my own logic. And what are the implications?

No holds barred evangelism. Like it or not2!

Signed, Greg Stier

26 Comments for 'My problem with HELL'

  1. On January 9, 2007 @ 1:05 pm AMBER said:
    • It seems like there is always something that even though your mine cannot accept, or even understand, but then we must always do it despite what our mind is saying. For example, I can gather and understand that God will be there for Eternity, forever. But understanding that he never had a beginning, is just… mind-boggling. I had a beginning. So God must have had a beginning also, right? Well…. no… he always was just… there. and that is like ‘Uh, what?" to me, i can’t understand it. But that’s the way it is… so accept it.  AMBER

    • Permalink to AMBER's comment

  2. On January 9, 2007 @ 4:41 pm Ron Forseth said:
    • Important rant, Greg.  Thanks for keeping the eternal perspective and high stakes in front of us!  Comment:  In my own dealing with the thought of hell as eternal conscious torment, my mind can hardly contain it without exploding.  Yet, I trust God as one who is completely just and if he says that it’s right, then I believe him.  Here’s a verse that helped me trust him more with eternal judgment and hell: Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!       How unsearchable his judgments,       and his paths beyond tracing out! Romans 11:33 Keep the faith!

    • Permalink to Ron Forseth's comment

  3. On January 9, 2007 @ 6:58 pm Dan Marvin said:
    • dmarvin811.blogspot.com for my reply

    • Permalink to Dan Marvin's comment

  4. On January 9, 2007 @ 6:59 pm Dan Marvin said:
    • You are missing some key points that if you lie you have broken the 9th Commandment and the bible says in Rev 21:8 All liars will have their part in the lake of fire. We all need someone to take our punishment for us. The punishment for sinning is death and God’s jail is hell. Go to my blog and read it all because it really says the truth according the bible and not man’s or woman’s opinion. Write me and give me your opinion about this. dmarvin811.blogspot.com

    • Permalink to Dan Marvin's comment

  5. On January 9, 2007 @ 7:49 pm Jessy said:
    • hey! i think i read this in your book!! haha..or maybe i heard it at dare2share…umm well…i know i’ve heard it before somewhere…but you’re right. that is something to really think about. i think god gives everyone an equal chance to know him. even if you are born into another religion, that emptiness it always there-and you can’t satisfy that emptiness with anyone or anything else but God himself. God makes his presence known to everyone. I can’t contemplate this either, so don’t feel bad about it. If God makes himself known to everyone, then everyone has an equal chance, yes, but if someone was always told that there was no God, then why not give them a second chance? yeah, i dont know, but I guess that’s just one of them questions that you have to wait till you get to heaven to ask God himself. jessy

    • Permalink to Jessy's comment

  6. On January 9, 2007 @ 8:16 pm leah said:
    • It’s scary to think about isn’t it? But at the same time I find it amazing. We all deserve hell, especially me! I find an eternity of loneliness and separation for God the balance on the other side of the equation. It’s the logical answer. Sin + My Life= Hell. But what I find amazing about it is that He doesn’t want us to go there. He sent his son for us! It’s our own choice on whether or not we go there. But thinking about hell really gets me thinking. What about all those people who have never heard the Gospel message? What happens to them? They have never had an opportunity to say yay or nay to God, so what about them? I guess we as Christians just need to fulfill Gods calling, and tell as many people about God’s AMAZING gift. That’s all we can do!

    • Permalink to leah's comment

  7. On January 9, 2007 @ 8:31 pm greg said:
    • Hey Dan, I went to your blog and have no idea what you are talking about. Of course all sinners go to hell. Apart from the grace of God go you and I brother. We deserve hell as much as anyone else. All of us in one way or another have broken all of God’s commands. Without Christ dying on the cross for all of our sins and us receiving the gift of eternal life through faith alone in him alone, our sins would remain on us and the wrath of God would hover over us (John 3:36) and it would all come crashing down upon us when we died and awoke in the flames of hell. Jesus said in John 5:24 that when we put our faith in Christ then we are passed out of the realm of death (ending in hell) into the realm of life (culminating in heaven.) Also we need to be careful not to subtely infuse good works into our gospel presentations. If we add ANYTHING to God’s grace by demanding something else, anything else other than simple faith in Christ we override God’s grace in exchange for human effort (Romans 11:6; Galatians 3:1). The Galatian believers demanded one little extra work (circumcision) and Paul told them that in so doing they had abandoned, not just the gospel but Christ himself (Galatians 1:6-8) Anyway, it probably would be a good thing for all of us to reread the book of Galatians and make sure that our presentations of the gospel wouldn’t be considered "anathema" by the apostle Paul. We must make sure our gospel lives up to it’s name. Afterall, the word gospel means "good news." Have a great day and enjoy the grace of God brother! Believe me, the law is great and all, but its pales in comparison to the grace of God. The law was just a shadow of things to come but the reality is found in Christ (Colossians 2). I’d take the reality of Christ over the shadow of the law any day of the week. Wouldn’t you? greg

    • Permalink to greg's comment

  8. On January 9, 2007 @ 8:59 pm Becky said:
    • Greg Steir,Personally I think most people don’t really like what the bible says about hell.That does include me.Which gets me thinking about people and where they might end up.Doesn’t the bible’s desription about hell make you just wanna share the gospel.I have heard my bible teacher at my christian school talk about Jesus talking about hell or punishment more times then heaven.Hey Gregf one more thing I wanted to let you know your one amazing person. http://notaboutmebutjesus.blogspot.com/  My super terrific blog.~Becky~

    • Permalink to Becky's comment

  9. On January 9, 2007 @ 9:48 pm DLynn said:
    • I can’t say that I have ever really struggled with the idea of Hell. Perhaps when I was younger and didn’t understand things as I do now that I’m ~oh so much wiser~ and older! I have been asked this question of hell and why God would , and how God could, ever send someone to such a place. I have responded with usually one of two ways. 1. God’s mercy and His justice are inseparable. He is perfect in all His ways. 2. Why such a horrible hell? Because there is such a Holy Heaven. Perhaps to simple, but I prefer to embrace a child like faith that simply trust that God is perfect and I need not question His word. He is God. He is perfect. He is loving, merciful, kind and just, and I trust Him! Blessings! D~ 

    • Permalink to DLynn's comment

  10. On January 10, 2007 @ 11:05 am fordiym said:
    • Hell is on my list of basic doctrinal lessons I preach and teach to teens, but I also preach and teach God’s grace to go with it. If you don’t mind I’d like to quote (copy/ paste) your reply from above because I agree with the statement; Believe me, the law is great and all, but its pales in comparison to the grace of God. The law was just a shadow of things to come but the reality is found in Christ (Colossians 2). I’d take the reality of Christ over the shadow of the law any day of the week. Once again, thanks for your words of wisdom. As a youth specialist it’s comforting and encouraging to read your words and know I’m not out here alone. See you in Columbus!

    • Permalink to fordiym's comment

  11. On January 10, 2007 @ 11:07 am Greg said:
    • Go for it fordiym! You have permission!

    • Permalink to Greg's comment

  12. On January 10, 2007 @ 2:15 pm sarah said:
    • great rant, dude!  my only problem would be that it seems to convince people to trust in God because they’re afraid of Hell.  wouldn’t it be more important that they trusted in Him out of their own respect and amazement of Him rather than out of fear of going to Hell?

    • Permalink to sarah's comment

  13. On January 10, 2007 @ 4:00 pm Sam said:
    • Yea i used to feel the exact same way about hell and how a loving God could send the people He loves there. I had such a problem with it that it led me astray for a very long time. I was a Christian/new ager i guess during that time. The full account of me being saved is actually about 4 pages long though, so if you would like to read it, send me an email.

    • Permalink to Sam's comment

  14. On January 10, 2007 @ 4:30 pm Erika said:
    • today i was talking to my friend about God and she was like "well what about the people in Africa who dont hear about God" and i was like i think God will show himself even if no one goes and shares "the good news" and she was like well what if they belive there is a god gods but its not GOd. i didnt know what to tell her so i need help. any verses? any thoughts? -eRika

    • Permalink to Erika's comment

  15. On January 11, 2007 @ 5:20 pm Jason T. George said:
    • Greg, Thanks for posting this dude. Great read. I mean it man. I met you out at Willow last Winter (I know you met a lot of people that day). Ha. Anyway, you are a real encouragement to me as I continue to try to infect the midatlantic region for Christ. Jason www.JasonGeorgeOutreach.com 

    • Permalink to Jason T. George's comment

  16. On January 13, 2007 @ 6:46 pm Andrea said:
    • Hey Greg! My youth group and I just got done with your G.O.S.P.E.L series! It was absolutely AMAZING!!! I would also like to tell you that my friend and I have been discussing this matter and how she doesn’t think there is a literal place called hell. Thank you so much for the insight on it all!  I knew what I believed but I didn’t really know how to explain it to her!  Hell is definitely a place and I totally agree with you on all that you’re saying about it!! It was great talking to you!!   I’ll see you in Lincoln, Nebraska for d2s!!  ~Andrea

    • Permalink to Andrea's comment

  17. On January 14, 2007 @ 1:05 pm Eva said:
    • To say I don’t believe in Hell would go against what I’ve seen and what I’ve seen hadn’t been taught to me before when God gave me a look at a place where it smells like the dead. I know he cries because of it. No one forced me to believe this. If you can imagine the cruelty of mankind as you’ve never seen it I doubt you would recognize their humanity. To be honest, a soul isn’t saved through religion but through God himself. Man created religion and because we know that  some or most people believe Jesus Christ wasn’t a God but a mere mortal. Imagine if he came as a King, do you think that would have have been any better? If he did, the people wouldn’t have been able to get close to him. People would only obey him because of his status. Besides he wanted for all mankind to be saved but I don’t think many people get how that was supposed to save them. Love isn’t love if it is forced, a King on Earth is different from a King who is God. In the end, we make our own decision. I know it seems unfair but when I think about it we forget about him most of the time in our daily lives. When people ask for forgiveness, I wonder if it’s to save themselves or if it’s because they truly want to find happiness in him. Aren’t we all naturally selfish?

    • Permalink to Eva's comment

  18. On January 15, 2007 @ 2:14 pm Tony Russo said:
    • One of the things I thought important oin my personal study about hell, was to look up each of the Greek words that are translated "hell" in the English Bible.  In the New Testament especially, there are only 4.  Matt 5:22 uses strong’s #1067 (Gehenna). This is the familiar one that refers to a fire that burned in the garbage site on the western side of Jerusalem in biblical times. The second, #1076 (#1078 which is only found once in James 3:6). Both are simply another form of #1067. In Acts 2:27 is strong’s #86, the word "hades." There is only one meaning to this word in the Greek language and it means "grave." #5020 is "Tartaroósas," found only in 2 Peter 2:4. That’s it, just these few are translated as "hell" in the New Testament. #1067, Gehenna, from the context of its use, refers to a future fire, probably the Lake of Fire in Revelation 20. Hades is "grave." Translators have chose to make us believe that this is a place of eternal burning.  Nonsense, hades carries no such meaning.  The last one, #5020, "Tartaroosas," is the fire that is reserved for the devil and his angels, which of course is future. Nowhere in Scripture is there found a word that fits the English description for a place of burning for the wicked. Revelation 20:10 does use the word "tormented" in terms of a forever process. But "tormented" is a word that means, "testing the stone." In ancient days if you wanted to know the value of gold or silver you would have taken it to an assyer. They would take the precious metal and rub it against a particular type of stone that when the metal was rubbed on the stone the assayer would be able to determine the value of the metal. Isaiah 28:16 refers to this type of stone, Old Testment strong’s #976 which has to do with testing precious metals. In Romans 9:33, Paul quotes Isaiah’s word for this stone as referring to Christ. The inference is that our charater is placed along side Christ in the judgement.  Paul states in 1 Cor 3:10-13 that our lives will reveal what kind of metal we are made of (or building on) in the fire. Nowhere would such a view of things make more sense than at the time of Revelation 20:10 in the lake of ifre.  The testing of the character by fire at that time will demonstrate what each person was trully made of.  Jesus invites us in Revelation 3:18, "I cousel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich…" His character is spiritual gold to us.  With Christ within, the testing fires will show that we belong to Him. Fire will puritfy the gold. Everything else will perish "forever."

    • Permalink to Tony Russo's comment

  19. On January 16, 2007 @ 12:11 pm Brian said:
    • Excellent post - really gets me thinking. I hear allot of people say, "God wouldn’t send me to hell for (insert sinful activity here).  I’m not such a bad person" etc.  Ultimately, God IS the judge of whether He will or won’t do anything at all, including that - but what is there in heaven for us?  Heaven is the place where God has His throne - where He is worshipped day and night, where He pours out His love on those who love Him.  In a nutshell, it’s the ultimate place of His kingdom, where His presence is inescapable.  If someone is not interested in a relationship with the All-Powerful, Infinate Living God, then the real question isn’t whether or not He will "send me to hell".  The question that matters is, "what is my place in heaven?"  If you want to be there, God sent us a roadmap…

    • Permalink to Brian's comment

  20. On February 12, 2007 @ 6:48 pm Dan said:
    • Greg, The law was made as a mirror for us. In the same way, we don’t realize what a bad state we are in until we look into the "mirror" of the Ten Commandments. I preach law to the proud and grace to the humble. You can not bring the "good news" to anyone proud and that doesn’t feel that they do not need a savior. That is the exact reason for Matthew 7:6  "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." If you just talk about Gods mercy then you will not reach people that need the savior. You will just get a bunch of people to “invite Jesus into their heart” and not get any true repentant souls. That is what you have to do to be saved. Repent and trust in Jesus like you would a parachute. (Faith) I deal with a lot of what is called false converts that say a little prayer without understanding why they need a savior. Without Jesus ALL will go to hell because we are lying thiefs adulterers at heart. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Psalm 111:10. You are wrong to delete Jesus out of the authority of the commandments because without him it is just good advice, right? Yea it’s wrong to lie that is good advice. But with the authority of God behind it that in revelations 21:8 it says all liars will have their part in the lake of fire. dmarvin811.blogspot.com

    • Permalink to Dan's comment

  21. On February 13, 2007 @ 3:39 pm Dan said:
    • There are two people that reject the bible and God. There are those that feel so guilty they have done something horribly wrong that they feel they would never be forgiven for it. Then there are those who like the lifestyle or (sin) so much that they don’t want to give it up for God or anyone. They think that they couldn’t live without that sin or lifestyle. What good is it for someone to gain the entire world only to loose his soul? I am here to tell you my friend that you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you. We must do in Hebrews 11:25 “Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season."  “Guilt disables spiritual growth and is a deceptive form of self-indulgence, creating an obsessive inward focus.  A guilty conscience leads not to repentance but repetitive I’m sorry’s, not for God’s sake but our own—a desperate attempt to feel better and clear away the dark, sorrowful shroud surrounding the heart.  Greatest of all, guilt separates us from God—naked, hiding behind the bushes of shame.  The big, holy God and little, sinful man, Perfect Father and the inadequate, filthy-rags son.  Down through the ages, Religion has reinforced guilt in a multitude of ways.  Huge, monolithic sanctuaries fit for the presence of God, reducing man to awed ants.” We are to have a relationship with Jesus; it is not about religion at all. Conviction, yes—guilt, no!

    • Permalink to Dan's comment

  22. On March 28, 2007 @ 7:27 am Ken said:
    • Dear Brothers and Sisters:  I suffer from severe insomnia and depression.  Lately, I feel as if these are the prelude to being destined for hell.  I have repented from my sins (I am trying to stop smoking) and I profess Christ as Lord but I don’t feel saved.  Please pray for me.  Thank You. Ken Johnson

    • Permalink to Ken's comment

  23. On March 28, 2007 @ 8:01 am Greg said:
    • Ken,

      Remember that salvation is not a matter of trying to stop sinning. Remember what Ephesians 2:8 and 9 tells us, "For it is by grace you have been saved THROUGH faith. This is a gift of God and not by works, so that no one can boast." Salvation is received through faith in Christ alone, not through our good deeds. Put your trust in him and what he did for you on the cross and you are saved, whether you feel like it or not.

      Just believe and receive. Greg

    • Permalink to Greg's comment

  24. On October 25, 2007 @ 2:19 pm Dan Marvin said:
    • Believe and receive is false doctrine and is NOT Biblical. Even the devil believes in Jesus. The Bible is clear on what we have to do for salvation and that is Repent (turn away from sinning) and Trust in Jesus and put your Faith in Him to run your life.

      God’s word declares that this is God’s plan of salvation; 1. Hear the WORD of God. 2. Believe that Jesus is the Messiah. 3. Repent of your ways that are contrary to God’s will. 4. Be Baptized INTO Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 5. Remain faithful to the Covenant you have made with God.

    • Permalink to Dan Marvin's comment

  25. On February 6, 2008 @ 9:08 am societyvs said:
    • My problem with Hell - societyVS

      “And maybe that question is the problem. Oftentimes the 21st Century version of the Christian God is just loving instead of just and loving. The just part of God (that demands absolute justice, holiness, perfection) has been minimized and the loving part of God (that shows mercy, grace and forgiveness) has been maximized.” (Greg)

      The question isn’t the problem - the ducking, dodging, and evading of the realities of what hell as a doctrine means is the problem.

      First, we can look at God’s justice and you can tell me if it is just?

      (a) Someone does not ‘accept’ Christ (as you think needs to be done) so they go to a place of eternal torment/torture…and all this because someone had a little pride? Is pride the going rate for torture these daya and do we Christians actually believe anything remotely close to that elsewehere in scripture?

      (b) Humans live for approximately 70 years - and if we fail to ‘choose’ we go to hell for how many years? Eternity - that’s right - forever. So in essence, God is judging a human’s 70 years with a judgement of eternal torture - does the punishment fit the crime? What is truly funny about this is God asks of us to be ‘fair’ in our judgments yet in His we see an absolute carelessness for this idea - granted - if your doctrine is true.

      (c) Hell as a doctrine is not something most of us ‘believe in’ - we say we do - but we do not live by it’s dictates. Think about it rationally for one simple second - look at the Holocaust and the extreme tortures that happened to innocent humans in that scenario - everyone stood up and condemnded that action (even you Greg). But think about it - you have no right to - isn’t this what non-Christians deserve anyways as part of God’s justice?

      Secondly, love as a concept - an all Loving God and hell:

      (a) I Cor 13 - is love torture? Does love contain any kind of torture in it? Well, God is love isn’t He?

      (b) God is love - do any of you love your mother, sister, child, etc? Can you imagine sending that person you care deeply about into a eternal lake of fire to burn forever and you watching it the whole time? I am not sure about anyone else in here - but that doesn’t seem loving to me.

      (c) An all loving God - who loved us so much - He sent his son to die on the cross for the sins of all humanity (a moving action) - has in Him the pettiness of thought to destroy and torture human life for the mere non-acceptance of Him? Better watch out - think about this long enough and you start to develop schizophrenia.

      Fact is, hell/hades/Gehenna/Hinnom - none of these are mentioned in the Tanakh nor do they ever get uttered by Paul (also the earliest writer). Hades is a ‘greek word’ and not Jewish or Aramaic - yet it also appears in the bible. Is it possible the NT writers adopted ideas or made mistakes with the idea ‘hell’ when writing the sayings of Jesus? Maybe the idea was added in later on - cause I am not sure where in the ‘hell’ Jesus would even pull this from - being Jewish and not Greek - unless he’s using Greek thought to prove a point? That’s what is truly strange about this whole thing concerning hell.

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  26. On February 6, 2008 @ 9:49 am Greg said:
    • Paul, Peter, Jude and John all write about hell in very literal terms…not to mention Jesus. As to whether or not Paul referred to hell check out 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, “He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power.” As to whether or not the NT writers made mistakes…um…the entire concept of inerrancy. Pull that rug out and all theology is have-it-your-way. As for justice, maybe the mistake we make here is defining what divine justice should look like by how we define it humanly. But his thoughts are higher than ours and his ways higher than our ways.

      Hell is hell. It does not wait on our acceptance of it. It burns in spite of our defining our redefining our conceptions of it or misconceptions. It is what it is. God is who he is. He is loving and he is holy. Hence the dichotomy. But it is not his problem. It is ours.

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