gregstier.org

Faith without works CAN’T save you!

Posted on Friday 4 April 2008 by Greg @ 7:13 am
Filed under: Rants

Okay, before you freak out, know that I’m just reiterating what James 2:14-26 makes crystal clear…faith without works can’t save us. This passage makes some bold and seemingly heretical assertions like: “You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.”

I’ve had these verses thrown into my face for years by Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses and works-based “Christians”. Inevitably they will say “well what about James 2?” And, when you think about it, this passage can be very difficult to reconcile with the vast majority of passages that make it clear that we are saved by faith alone and not good works.

At first and second and third glance it looks like the teachings of St. James and the teachings of St. Paul are diametrically opposed. As a matter of fact the great reformer Martin Luther (not the black preacher but the German monk) offered a free Doctor’s cap to anyone who could reconcile their teachings. They seem contradictory.

To be honest the vast majority of commentaries I have read on this passage are not much help. They all have the same mantra… “here’s what saving faith looks like….blah, blah, blah.” But James is not talking about what saving faith looks like…he’s talking about what saves. His conclusion? Faith PLUS works is what saves us.

Hence the conundrum.

But with the help of the Holy Spirit and my good friend Jonathan Smith I think that we have been able to crack the code of James 2. And what I see on the inside is something beautiful. What I see is something that should inspire Christians everywhere.

I really want you to take some time and watch this podcast where I take the James 2 challenge head on. I preached it just two days ago to our Dare 2 Share staff. For many of them it helped explain this passage in a way that, didn’t just reconcile Paul and James, but helped them realize how practical and life changing this passage is to our everyday lives.

Please watch it and let me know what you think of the way we interpreted and applied this powerful (not problem) passage.

28 Comments for 'Faith without works CAN’T save you!'

On April 4, 2008 @ 7:48 am Becky said:

I’ll try to watch it later if I am not to blah.
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On April 4, 2008 @ 11:40 am Bubelaiken said:

okay… I watch your podcast and it was great!!! it had encourage me a lots… in matter of fact i will use all your facts and what you had said in the podcast to peoples and maybe it encourage other peoples as well but i think i understand what you said i think you are saying that Without lesson… we wouldn’t know what jesus Christ is saying to us and telling us. without the work It can’t give us faith, won’t taught that lessons that we learn abotu jesus everyday…

without faith you can’t really save yourself soo I think that is what you meant to say…

yeah… YOu had encourage me a lots latley.

soo Keep doing your work and keep encourage me Greg
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On April 4, 2008 @ 1:17 pm Eddie said:

Best explaination of James 2 that I’ve ever heard. I loved it. As with all scripture we must keep in mind the context and so many automatically claim the “saved” to be saved from hell. Being able to see this passage for what it is rather than arguing what it’s not, adds so much to our ability to grow stronger in our faith.

Now when I’m asked to explain James 2, I can do so in much less time and in much more clarity. I have just updated my outline for the passage and can’t wait to study it again.

There’s times when I’d be witnessing to someone and they’d ask about faith without works being dead? If they weren’t specific about James, I would take them to 1 Corinthians 15:14&17 which is in keeping with the context of our discussion about salvation from hell. If Christ is not risen, our faith is in vain. There you have the works for our faith. Christ did the works to save us when we place our faith (without OUR works) in Him. If He did not do the works (rise from the dead), our faith is in vain or worthless. This worked because that is the context of the discussion (saved from hell).

But you have provided me with some awesome points to gladly explain to them the context of James in a simple and accurate manner that will add clarity and not continue to confuse. If I’m witnessing to them, I may still take them back to 1 Corinthians and get back onto the subject of saving them from hell, but the foundation for discipleship and further understanding of the gospel may be stronger because I will have answered the question in a more complete manner.

Thank you so much for taking the time to cover James 2.
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On April 4, 2008 @ 1:42 pm Heather said:

How does Hebrews 12:2 play in?
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On April 4, 2008 @ 2:09 pm Joe Vasquez said:

Greg-

Good stuff. Nice breakdown of a ‘problem’ passage (I’M THE PROBLEM!) Dude, your great.
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On April 4, 2008 @ 6:30 pm Shurinai said:

Greg,

Absolutly Great post. It was a real eye opener. Thank you for letting God use you it means a lot to me. Love ya bro.

Shurinai
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On April 4, 2008 @ 11:00 pm Rose said:

hey greg.
i just wanted to let you know that i really enjoyed your book “venti jesus please” my old youth pastor went with his new church to D2S Seattle and gave me a copy of the book. it made things much easier to understand. once i started reading it i didn’t want to put it down (btw i hate reading). i am now going to pass it on to my twin. i accepted christ less than two years ago and am still the only christian in my family. but however i think that book with make things alot clearer for my twin and possibly even my big sister will take a glance at it. anyways i just wanted to say thanks for that book..
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On April 5, 2008 @ 7:16 am trheph1921 said:

Greg, I am so thankful for this message and the clarity with which you presented it. I am a youth leader but have only been a new creation myself for 3 years, less time than some of our kids, and this passage has troubled me. Of course, my Christian toddler response has been to go back to Paul and try to forget James but now I can make peace with my brother James.

I thank God for your ministry and passion for the Truth. Our group spent some time with you and Zane in Columbus this year. I appreciate the challenges you presented to the kids to do it NOW with the cell phone calls and evangelism/service time in the afternoon. We’re a small group with very shy kids who tend to be the ones in the background and against the wall in most settings but my heart was filled with joy as I watched them approach door after door asking for food and prayer requests. We were challenged and convicted as leaders that day as well. As we handed our cell phones to the kids and told them to call someone God very clearly asked a couple of us why we weren’t placing the calls… Thanks for allowing God to challenge and convict all of us, kids and adults, through your service.
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On April 5, 2008 @ 8:10 am Tyler said:

one of the best podcasts from you in a long time. great way to show that there is no contradiction in Scripture at all.
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On April 5, 2008 @ 10:58 am Becky said:

I really liked this podcast.Now I could probably share my faith better.
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On April 5, 2008 @ 2:38 pm Steve said:

Greg, very interesting view.

I think that James was dealing with folks that said “I am a follower of Christ” and there was no indication in their life they were. James was saying your fruit will show your belief and you have no fruit for Christ so where is your belief?

He is drawing a contrast for those who fall on Grace Only and do nothing more. Saying Saved by Grace is fine but what difference has that made in your life? IF it has made no difference then maybe you are not saved as you suppose. This fits with Paul when he says what then should we go on Sinning (Romans 6:1-3)?

I think Christ gives an example of this in Matthew 7:21-23 talking about those who thought they were followers and should get into heaven and he says ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ These are the folks I believe James is addressing.

James is addressing the question, you believe, great what difference has that made in your life?
If nothing then maybe you should reexamine your faith.

I do believe he is dealing with a salvation issue and not a reward/perfection issue as you outlined. It is an interesting view though.
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On April 6, 2008 @ 8:02 pm alex miller said:

Greg,

excellent job today at grace, it was really exciting to see what god has done in your life!! also d2s is a killer website excellent layout!! thanks for sharing your heart today I know a lot of people were impacted!!

Alex
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On April 7, 2008 @ 11:23 am David Perkins, Fort Worth said:

I believe you still miss it, Greg. Faith PLUS works is what saves us, you said. Absolutely not! Just as Albert Einstein, in his famous equation E=MC 2, proved that energy and mass were the same, Paul and James together prove that faith and works are the same. Works is the outward sign of inner faith! “Works” is something we do, “faith” is something we have. We cannot do works unless we have faith. We cannot have faith if we don’t do works. Ah, but David, you say, “People without faith can tithe.” No, they are paying thier annual country club dues.
Thus, if Jesus Christ commands us to “love our enemies” and we back the war in Iraq, for example, our “works” are not matching our faith!

Love
David Perkins
www.JesusChristSaid.com
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On April 7, 2008 @ 9:03 pm Chris Phillips said:

A response to comment 11: Greg is dead on. The book of James is written to Jewish “believers” (James 1:1), and he is calling them to put their faith into action. The following is the theme he establishes in 1:1-8 and follows throughout the rest of the epistle.

James
The unifying theme established in James 1-8

Throughout church history, the book of James has caused much division in regards to its interpretation. Some say that James is teaching salvation by works, some say James is teaching that Christians can lose their salvation, some say that James is teaching that many who profess to be Christians have not really exercised saving faith in Christ and have never been saved , and others say that James is a forceful plea for Christians to put their faith into action.

The reason we have this problem is because many are reading into the book what isn’t there (isogesis), rather than letting the book speak for itself.

In an attempt to clarify the primary theme upon which the epistle is based I would like to begin with an e-mail I received a while back which gives great insight to the epistle:

Malachi 3:3 says: “He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver.”

This verse puzzled some women in a Bible study and they wondered what this statement
meant about the character and nature of God.
       One of the women offered to find out the process of refining silver and get back to the group at their next Bible Study.
     That week, the woman called a silversmith and made an appointment to watch him at work. She didn’t mention anything about the reason for her interest beyond her curiosity about the process of refining silver.
     As she watched the silversmith, he held a piece of silver over the fire and let it heat up. He explained that in refining silver, one needed to hold the silver in the middle of the fire where the flames were hottest as to burn away all the impurities.
     The woman thought about God holding us in such a hot spot; then she thought again about the verse that says: “He sits as a refiner and purifier of silver.” She asked the silversmith if it was true that he had to sit there in front of the fire the whole time the silver was being refined.
     The man answered that yes, he not only had to sit there holding the silver, but he had to keep his eyes on the silver the entire time it was in the fire. If the silver was left a moment too long in the flames, it would be destroyed.
         The woman was silent for a moment. Then she asked the silversmith, “How do you know when the silver is fully refined?”
He smiled at her and answered, “Oh, that’s easy — when I see my image in it”

    In James 1:3, we encounter the first occurrence of the word testing (Greek dokimion).
When our English ears hear the word testing we immediately think of passing or failing
the test. A better translation of the word would be refining, genuineness, or purification (I Peter 1:7 it is
translated genuineness NKJV). Not only is that how Peter uses the word in the context, but every
occurrence of the word in the Septuigent is found in the context of the refinement (q.v. I Kings
10:18; II Chronicles 9:17; Genesis 23:16; I Chronicles 28:18; I Chronicles 29:4; Zechariah 11:13;
Proverbs 27:21). So the testing of the faith in question is not does it exist or not, rather is it being
refined to the point that we are becoming more like Him and able to respond to temptations in
obedience to the Father.

We see this picture in the very next verse, ”But let patience have its perfect (teleion) work, that
you may be perfect (teleion) and complete, lacking nothing. (Teleion) is translated mature in
Ephesians 4:13 and complete in Colossians 1:28. Following the occurring theme when we go
through various temptations and make the right choices our faith is refined as we become more
like Christ.
But if any of you lacks wisdom (the wisdom needed to ascertain the correct response in a particular temptation) let him ask God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him (vs 5). What will be given to him? To him that is seeking to make the right choices in the midst of temptations God will give him the wisdom needed to bring about the appropriate response, thus maturing the believer.

But let him ask in faith with no doubting (diakrinomenos) for he who doubts (diakrinomenos) is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. The word diakrinomenos has the idea of wavering between. Look at the picture presented immediately following the statement “like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. The person who doubts isn’t someone who never doubts the outcome of a temptations, but someone who is tossed about like a wave of the sea with no direction. He receives wisdom from God and acts in opposition to that wisdom.

For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord (vs. 6). Why should he expect God to give him anything if he is not going to use it?

He is a double-minded (dipsucos) man, unstable in all his ways (vs. 8). The word (dipsucos) literally translated means “two-souled.” The man who is a doubter has an inner war of two souls going on and the old nature is having its way with the new nature and there is no maturity happening within the man.

There is a reoccurring picture here. James like all great preachers of the word is making sure his message is coming across loud and clear. He repeats himself in many different ways in an effort to paint a picture that his readers can clearly see, one metaphor after another.

What a beautiful picture! It is God’s desire that we become more precious than silver or gold; so precious in fact that we begin to take on His express image. The temptations in our life are an opportunity to conform to His nature. As we listen to His voice and respond to it our faith grows and we mature.
Permalink to Chris Phillips's comment

On April 7, 2008 @ 9:15 pm Chris Phillips said:

Continued response to comment 11:

And Matthew 7:21-23:

These are people who claim that they represent Jesus, but do not. These are the people who will be saying “Lord, Lord” to Jesus, but he really isn’t their Lord. They have never placed their faith in Him, but in their own works. Their hope is based on the things that they have done: “didn’t we prophecy? didn’t we drive out demons? didn’t we perform miracles?” You see their trust was based on what they were doing, not in the one they thought they were doing it for. You and I both know plenty of people who claim to be Christians, but aren’t.

Now the only sticky part left is when Jesus says that the only way to enter the kingdom of heaven is to do the will of the Father. If you read John 6:40 it tells us that the will of the Father is that those who look to the son, believe in him and then receive eternal life. In Acts 16:29-31 we see that when the jailor asked what he had to do to be saved, the answer was simply: “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved”. When Nicodemus came to Jesus in John chapter 3, Jesus told him that he had to be born again to enter the kingdom of God. When he explains how to be born again, we get to verse 16 - which you are familiar with. So you see, the will of Father for the unbeliever is simply to believe in Jesus.
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On April 8, 2008 @ 6:11 am Eddie said:

Chris,

Thanks for the comments. Good reading and great explaination on both comments.
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On April 8, 2008 @ 6:46 am Greg said:

Wow Chris. Thanks for the detailed and excellent explanation. It’s nice to have smart guys back you up!
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On April 8, 2008 @ 7:48 am David Perkins, Fort Worth said:

Chris, I’d like to respond to your number 15 submission. First of all, you did a first rate job on research of the Bible. Thank you for that. And this comment I make is no large matter.
You had said “You and I both know plenty of people who claim to be Christians, but aren’t.”
Now, that is a judgement, and we both know there are verses from Jesus Christ to judge and not to judge. Jesus warned us to watch out for that log in our own eye before we point out a splinter in our neighbor’s eye. So, it appears what you said was an opinion for which you don’t have enough information to make a judgement. How do you know what’s truly in the hearts of these and what they are praying to God? You don’t. You can judge by their appearances, although Jesus Christ did warn us about doing that. But even if you did, how do you know someone who you see just commit a sin that that person has been fighting and praying about for some time? Perhaps, that sin is thier “thorn” that Paul talks about.
I just don’t know enough to say what judgement that person will have on “Judgement Day”, do you? We are all judgemental animals and for good reason. We have to sort out, and quickly sometimes, the “fight or flight” response.
It’s not a big thing, but I bring it up so perhaps you begin to have some compassion for someone struggling with something that perhaps you find easy to do. Christians, followers of Christ, are not automatons, and we are not all alike, nor are any of us perfect. All of us were sinners and all of us still sin. No one in this flesh is perfect enough to meet God.

Love
David Perkins
www.JesusChristSaid.com
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On April 8, 2008 @ 9:43 am Eddie said:

David,

In response to your #18 comment…

I’m not sticking up for Chris; I believe he can do that on his own. I just wanted to add to your comments. As you say, we do not know their hearts. We cannot know if someone who claims to have trusted Christ actually has done so based on their works and you do a good job of backing that up with scripture.

You even use the Matthew 7 passage that leads to Jesus saying ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ to those who add works to their faith for eternal life (“didn’t we prophecy? didn’t we drive out demons? didn’t we perform miracles?”). Excellent job by the way. You nailed fact that works are in no way responsible for our eternal life when you asked “how do you know someone who you see just commit a sin that that person has been fighting and praying about for some time? Perhaps, that sin is their “thorn” that Paul talks about.” And again when you added, “All of us were sinners and all of us still sin. No one in this flesh is perfect enough to meet God.” No matter how hard we try before or after we trust Christ, we will not be perfect. That renders our efforts pointless for anything other than service and proof of nothing concerning eternal life.

No amount of good works can prove a person believes, just like no amount of bad works can prove a person does NOT believe. Our works have nothing to do with receiving eternal life. This solidifies that Greg and Christ were accurate and James was NOT talking about eternal life. It is the people who tie their works into their eternal salvation that are in error.

And yes, we are all judgmental animals like you say and we are such because we are sinners. As sinners, our works will never be good enough to help our salvation in any way. As mentioned in Hebrews 6:1, we must reject also our good works, bad works and any other effort and cling only to the finished work of Christ for our eternal life. Our works are not proof for God that we believe. He already knows. They are not proof for us that someone believes, as we don’t know their heart. But they do help those who may doubt our claims.

And there cannot first be an obedient child, unless there is first a child. Obedience to God doesn’t make us His children. Believing only in Jesus Christ alone does that. But once we are His children, we are expected to be obedient and act like one. Of course, we are sinners and we don’t always do that and you made a strong case supporting that fact. It’s like raising any child, it’s not pretty and children have to learn. It’s not automatic. We must mature as God’s children and James 2 covers it well.

As far as what Chris meant when he said “You and I both know plenty of people who claim to be Christians, but aren’t.” I don’t know who Chris was talking about but I agree with him in one way.

It’s not about judging someone based on their works as Jesus warned against. Keeping with the Matthew 7 theme here, we are to judge false prophets based on what they teach and the fruit they bear. The judgment is based on what they are having faith in. If they add works to grace, it’s false. If it’s by grace, through faith alone in Christ alone… true.

I know many who claim to have faith in Jesus Christ alone but instead rely on their good works to get them to heaven. They are the examples Jesus gives in Matthew 7:22. Instead of clinging to their faith in Him alone for their eternal life/salvation, they are clinging to their works as proof. Jesus says here that they are not saved. This is not a judgment based on their works like He warns against in the opening verses of the chapter but rather based on the actual focus of their faith. And if they are preaching that false faith, they are false prophets and their fruit will not be good fruit but corrupted.

The issue is that they claim to be Christians but focus on their works as the proof. Faith in Jesus Christ and HIS finished work on the cross is what makes a Christian, not OUR works. What someone is trusting in for their eternal life can be judged and should be judged.
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On April 8, 2008 @ 12:42 pm Twenty Items of Interest (v. 12) « Caffeinated Thoughts said:

[…] Greg Stier on the James 2 faith-works dilemma. My take is that works don’t save, but saving faith will have works as fruit or the […]
Permalink to Twenty Items of Interest (v. 12) « Caffeinated Thoughts's comment

On April 9, 2008 @ 12:00 pm Chris Phillips said:

My previous comments were to Biblically refute the idea that we are saved by works, and to show you how the Jewish ear would have heard the terms James uses in setting the stage for his in his epistle. Remember James’ audience is Jewish believers. Maturity will line up with “every” section of the epistle.

Second, saying we all know people who claim to be Christians who really aren’t isn’t a judgement. It is a gathering of facts based on conversations with individuals who don’t believe faith is enough to save us. They call themselves Christians, but add works to faith. If you add anything to it you are, in some way, trusting in yourself to get to heaven. Jesus said on the cross “it is finished.” There is nothing for us to add.

Many comments I have read, as well as, the ones from my own youth group are: I don’t know any/many unsaved people. My challenge to you in sharing the gospel with “every one” you know is this: include those you would consider to be Christians into “every one” you know. Engage them in spiritual conversations, and I think you will find,if you ask the right questions, some will be trusting in their works. My 48 hour challenge was one such person, when I ask if he knew for sure if he was going to heaven, he said, “Yes, I believe in “God,” and I am a good person.” I then walked him through the G.O.S.P.E.L. and he accepted Christ. I knew that he claimed to be a Christian, and through conversation realized he didn’t know the truth. I didn’t judge him, rather, I shared the “truth” with him.
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On April 9, 2008 @ 3:44 pm Ryan said:

I watched the podcast and the message was excellent and beneficial, but I’m afraid that I don’t completely agree. You see I believe that James is talking about salvation in much the same manner that Jesus is talking about salvation in the parable of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25:31-46. I believe that James is being a little sarcastic in his statement and implying that you have no faith if you have no works. Now do not mistake me, I do not believe that he is saying the the works themselves have any salvific power. But I believe that he is simply saying that any genuine faith (and only God and the individual can know if their faith is genuine because God judges the heart) will motivate the believer to works out of gratitude for the price that has been paid. I also believe that James and Paul are not in the least contradictory and would cite Ephesians 2:8-10. In fact, speaking in a tongue in cheek manner was a habit of Pauls that is most noticable in his letters to the Corithians, and I think that James is in fact giving Paul a wink and a nod with his wording in James 2. I believe the real point of this passage from James is that we should differentiate from saying we have faith and actually having faith. Jesus said that faith as small as a mustard seed could move a mountain, and I will take my stand that faith of any size will move us to good works.

Your brother in Christ and a great fan,
Ryan Phillis
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On April 10, 2008 @ 7:07 am Eddie said:

I have to be honest. I think this passage is rather simple and gets way to much attention for what it’s not about.

James is instructing the believers in spiritual maturity and to understand chapter 2, it’s best to go back to chapter 1. It’s not about eternal life. It’s not about proving they were saved. That’s not even the point. He’s guiding believers to maturity in their Christian lives.

My simple summary for James is this and it’s written to believers.

The point of the book: Spiritual Maturity

“Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything” (James 1:2-4).

Trials build perseverance. Perseverance is necessary to grow stronger and spiritually mature in Christ. (Chris gave an excellent example of the silversmith which explains this much deeper).

Now specifically James 2:

Having faith in Christ and believing in God does not put food in the mouth of the hungry or clothes on the naked. Favoritism has no place among believers. Love our neighbor as ourselves. As a child of God, we will reap what we sow and God will show us mercy in our consequences on the level we show mercy to others. Mercy trumps judgment so it’s worth the trouble. So straighten up.
_______________________________
And to Ryan,

You said,

“Now do not mistake me, I do not believe that he is saying the works themselves have any salvific power. But I believe that he is simply saying that any genuine faith (and only God and the individual can know if their faith is genuine because God judges the heart) will motivate the believer to works out of gratitude for the price that has been paid.”

Are you saying that works are automatically generated from having faith in Christ? If so, then why write the book in the first place? We are not saved by our good works, and once we are saved we’d be motivated automatically to do good works. That just eliminated the need for most of the NT including half the gospels. This entire passage would have been pointless.

Following that logic, if James is talking to believers, they’d already be doing the works so what’s the point. If he was talking to the lost, works isn’t the right topic but rather faith because then the works would automatically follow. He would not be pleading for them to do the works but rather to have faith. We’ve just eliminated both options. I just can’t picture James writing a passage to nobody.

Instead, we are motivated, passionately pursued, prodded, and pleaded with both by Paul AND James to walk in obedience to God as believers. That means there IS a choice for those who have eternal life. Either we are obedient to God or we choose NOT to be obedient to God. We are still battling our old nature. We choose which one to follow, the spirit or the flesh. Paul admittedly battled it and wrote about it.

I’m just not sure what you meant by the comment “any genuine faith will motivate the believer to works out of gratitude for the price that has been paid.” I know it SHOULD motivate us, but it’s not automatic.

And why would James write an inside joke to Paul in a letter to an entirely different group of people? Wouldn’t he instead write the joke to Paul in a letter to maybe Paul?
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On April 10, 2008 @ 1:18 pm Steve said:

Chris, nice comments back (14), “The book of James is written to Jewish “believers” (James 1:1)”. I was using 2 Peter 3:9 recently with a Calvinists about how God wants all people saved. He (the Calvinist) was quick to point out that this verse is written to believers and that it does not apply to all people just believers. It seems to be a common excuse when you don’t want scripture applied to unbelieving to say “well you need to understand this part was written to believes”. I am not sure I agree with the argument though.
I do believe God wants all men (mankind) to be save and he gives us the choice to accept the gift of life with him or not. How we accept that gift is what we spend so much time arguing about and splitting churches over.
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On May 7, 2008 @ 11:18 am Scott said:

It’s amazing how much opinion enters some of your comments. I really believe it’s just an attempt to justify a “sinning religion”. It’s all grace and no works. Where in the Bible does it ever say that it’s ok to continue sinning after salvation? Where does it say that we have to sin or will sin every day or even often? Some of you guys write stuff like “we all sin”. Well I guess we aren’t reading the same Bible and don’t serve the same Savior. It is clear throughout the Bible that God intended for us to live holy and righteous and blameless lives “in this present day” (Titus 2). This junk about 2 natures waring within us doesn’t have to be. Paul talks about it many times. That sinful nature (different from the actual sins committed), has to be crucified, destroyed, done away with and not just suppressed. If not those sinful acts, deeds, attitudes, will continually raise their ugly head. If the blood Jesus shed on the cross only washed away our past sins, but wasn’t powerful enough to cleanse us and purify us from the sinful nature, then He wasn’t very powerful and not much of a Savior! The reason the church isn’t any more effective than what it is in our society, is because the church and Christians have fallen short of all that God has for it. We preach salvation but not sanctification. Stop making excuses for sin in the life of the Christian and twisting the scriptures to make us all feel good about the little sins we hold on to. It does matter what we do after salvation. I agree works will not save us, but they will keep us saved! We would all agree that we must be sanctified and made holy before we enter heaven. We just don’t agree when that takes place. Some think it happens with 1 work of grace, some think it happens with a 2nd work of grace, and some think it happens when we die. Why can’t we accept that God is big enough and powerful enough to purify us “in this present day”–right now. I believe the false doctrines and fals prophets are those who sell half the gospel–Salvation without Sanctification (the 2nd work of the Holy Spirit) and it’s not some fanatical tongue-speaking, roll on the floor experience. When we are filled with the Spirit at Sanctification, the evidence is “the fruit of the spirit” in Galatians and I believe that is exactly what James is referring to as well. Look at them again: Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, and Self-Controll. Nothing in there about “sinning Christians”–those two words are a contradiction anyway. The mature, Spirit-Filled Christian will display those fruits and the Self-Controll would include the sin stuff as well. We are sending the wrong message when we tell our young people and new believers that it’s ok to sin and still be a Christian and that they are “eternally secure”. The Bible just doesn’t say that–you’re stretching it to even come close. We must be a holy people that are living for Jesus moment by moment and not in a backslidden state, if we ever hope to enter a holy place called heaven and see a holy God who gave his only Son so we could have eternal life.
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On May 7, 2008 @ 12:32 pm Greg said:

The great thing Scott is that Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and other works based religions agree with you on this point as well. Unfortunately the New Testament does not. 98x’s the book of John says “believe” is the requirement for salvation (the only book written to unbelievers by the way) and the book of Galatians blatantly attacks those who dare to add one work to the free gift of God’s grace. Here’s what the Apostle Paul writes to all those who dare to add works as a requirement for salvation, “You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?” Of course once we are saved from the penalty of sin the good deeds should pour forth as a supernatural result of his Spirit working in us and on us. But to make this a prerequisite for salvation insults the work of Christ on the cross. You’ll never hear me justifying a “sinning religion”. I am hard on sinning Christians. But you don’t pervert the gospel of grace to get the outcome that you feel is right. We are saved by either grace or works. It can’t be both “if it were, grace would no longer be grace” (Romans 11:6)
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On May 20, 2008 @ 4:29 pm Scott said:

I think you are misunderstanding me. I think you have labled me as works based with the Mormans, and Jehovah’s Witnesses and that is inaccurate. I believe as do you that it is by faith in Christ Jesus alone. But what does that mean? To have faith in Jesus it takes a little work or action on our part to receive. You can just sit there and do nothing and nothing has changed in your life. Where the works come in is after salvation and that is what James is talking about. Believe and then do nothing to maintain and grow and you lose it. I know this is where you will disagree with me with the “eternal security” stuff, but it isn’t biblically based. You cannot separate faith from works, they go together. When you stop living for Christ, He ceases to be Lord of your life, by your choosing not his. Who’s lord of your life then? I know you are hard on sinning Christians, but then you give them a back door and tell them they are ok and secure. 2 Corinthians 7:1 “Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.” 1 John 3:9-10 “No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not “do” what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. 2 Peter 3:17 “Therefore dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.” You may want to read 2 Peter chapter 3, where we are called to live holy and godly lives and to make every effort (work) to be found spotless, blameless, and at peace with him. This sounds like working to me. Not before salvation–we’re in agreement that you cannot earn your initial salvation, but the Bible clearly teaches that we must “hold fast” and “hold firm” to our faith “until the end”. We have become so concerned with decisions that we forget that it is a relationship and we all know that it takes hard work to keep a relationship together. Try telling your wife that you have faith in your marriage, and don’t work on that relationship. It may not be the best illustration but if you want to keep it together, you better be getting some flowers and chocolate and let her know you love her with your actions and deeds. I love you at the altar doesn’t for eternity. I honestly don’t mean to argue with you personally, I just can’t stand seeing our young people get the message “All I have to do is believe and I’m good for eternity no matter what my words and deeds are. I live with a sinful nature and I’m going to sin everyday in word, thought, or deed, so why worry about my sins. I just ask for forgiveness before bedtime and I’m good.” You may not come right out and say it that bluntly and to that extreeme, but that’s what they are hearing. Eternal Security is nothing more than modern day Gnosticism. Come on Greg, let’s stop giving “sinning Christians” an easy out by telling them they still are saved and are still are going to heaven. They just have broken fellowship or don’t receive as many rewards. The Bible just doesn’t support that. We died to sin, we cannot continue in it! (Romans 6:1-2)
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On June 21, 2008 @ 9:01 am Caffeinated Thoughts - » Twenty Items of Interest (v. 12) said:

[…] Greg Stier on the James 2 faith-works dilemma. My take is that works don’t save, but saving faith will have works as fruit or the […]
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Faith without works CAN’T save you!

Posted on Friday 4 April 2008 by Greg @ 7:13 am
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Posted on Friday 4 April 2008 by Greg @ 7:13 am
Filed under: Rants