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Invincible Youth Ministry Conference Tour

Awkward Conversations

Posted on Friday 22 August 2008 by Greg @ 8:39 am
Filed under: Rants

I love the gospel of grace. Actually to say “gospel of grace” is kind of redundant. The gospel is grace and grace is the gospel. But there are so many adulterated versions of the “gospel” out there that you kind of have to qualify which gospel you are talking about. I’ll never forget having an awkward conversation with a national ministry leader after I had spoken at an event he was speaking at years ago. The conversation went something like this:

Him: “I think we are making it too easy for teenagers to become Christians.”

Me: “Hmmm, that’s weird because I think we are making it too hard.”

Him: “Well we have to be sure that we are not preaching easy believism.”

Me: “And we have to make sure that we are not preaching a gospel of works for salvation because that would be heresy.”

Awkward silence and direct eye contact for about 30 seconds.

Me: “Talk to you later.”

Him: “Later.”

I have to admit that I’m a fighter when it comes to defending the gospel of grace. I loathe gospel presentations that focus on what we must do for Jesus (try harder, surrender all, get baptized, be revolutionized, yearn more, seek more, give more, turn or burn, try or fry, forsake or bake, etc) than on what Jesus did for us (died in our place so that we wouldn’t have to!) You add one work to grace then it is no longer grace. The verse I continuously refer to is Galatians 1:8,

“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!”

Here Paul makes a bold statement: if you preach a false gospel you can go to hell…quite literally. I tend to resonate with this attitude when it comes to the abundant amount of false teachers we have floating out there, both inside and outside the church. This attitude led to another awkward conversation with our leadership team just a few weeks ago while we were in Granby, Colorado for a two day leadership retreat.

As I was making a case for putting the gospel of grace as a non-negotiable in our one page strategic plan one of our leadership team (you know who you are) gently confronted me. In so many words he/she said that I was such a watchdog for the gospel that sometimes I came off abrasive (heard that before), hard headed (heard that today) and cult-like (never heard this one) in my defense of the gospel. This led to “climate change” in the room…talk about global warming….I was hot enough to melt the polar ice caps.

For a few minutes as the rest of the leadership team chimed in I felt like I was being cornered and lets just say that I’m more of a panther than a pacifist when I feel cornered. In my perception the leadership team was wussing out when it came to this crucial truth and I was mad.

But we worked our way through the awkward conversation and I began to see what they were saying. Our leadership team is super passionate about the gospel of grace but they were also super passionate about communicating this message with an attitude of grace. Finally it clicked and I agreed.

What we came up with is the idea of “preaching the gospel of grace (Galatians 1:8) with an attitude of grace (2 Timothy 2:24-26)”. Listen to the words of the apostle Paul in the Timothy passage on how to communicate to those who are false teachers,

“And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.”

Now that’s a balance…to preach the uncompromised truth of the gospel with an attitude of undeniable love for others, even the others that oppose the message.

George Whitefield used to pray, “God give me the mixture of the lion and the lamb.” I am praying the same thing for myself. Please pray with me. I long to find this balance in my life. I have a long way to go. But I have a great leadership team, a loving wife and the powerful indwelling Holy Spirit to help me.

Signed, Greg Stier

19 Comments for 'Awkward Conversations'

  1. On August 22, 2008 @ 9:29 am Eddie said:
    • Great post! Been there, done that… and still learning how not to pounce but instead instruct in a manner of grace. The Lion and the Lamb…

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  2. On August 22, 2008 @ 9:47 am jason said:
    • Gospel of grace with an attitude of grace!

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  3. On August 22, 2008 @ 10:22 am Brian said:
    • An awesome post and great prayer request! I’ll be praying that you develop a balance between the Lion and the Lamb. Pray for me as I sometimes don’t have enough Lion.

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  4. On August 22, 2008 @ 3:14 pm Will said:
    • Praying, Greg and Brian.
      Praying Ephesians 6:19-20 “Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel… Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.” And in His Holy Love, as we should…

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  5. On August 23, 2008 @ 12:53 pm Debb said:
    • As a member of your team Greg, I have to give you kudos for working through this with all of us. And to be vulnerable enough to put up a post — way to go! Fourteen years now by your side and your authenticity still blows me away. Thanks for your leadership!

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  6. On August 24, 2008 @ 9:39 am Becky said:
    • yeah.your right

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  7. On August 24, 2008 @ 10:09 pm Steve said:
    • Greg

      The problem is with Grace only you start to sound like a Calvinist and leave no room for statements about faith being a work and repentance and baptism, which you define as works. When you read the Bible there is so much more to faith than just saying I believe.

      1 Peter 3:21
      There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

      Galatians 3:27 (NKJV)
      27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

      Romans 10:8-10 (NKJV)
      8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”[a](that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

      Philippians 2:12 (NKJV)
      12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

      1 Thessalonians 1:2-4 (NKJV)
      2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers, 3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father, 4 knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.

      Paul’s Post-Conversion Life
      Acts 26:19-21 (NKJV)
      19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision,
      20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
      21 For these reasons the Jews seized me in the temple and tried to kill me .

      Faith is a work, it is something we do (if you believe in free will) which puts salvation in our court to accept. It is what we need to do to accept it that you struggle with.

      You argue Faith Only because you want Salvation to be all God’s work, yet if we have free will our faith is not God’s work but ours.

      I don’t want to burden believer with works but when Paul says “with the mouth confession is made unto salvation” and you say no just believe (confession is a work), frankly I take Paul over you. When Paul says “that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance” and you say no Grace Only, I take Paul over you.

      What is a common theme when salvation mentioned in the Bible
      Hear, Believe, Repent, Confess, And, Be Baptized

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  8. On August 25, 2008 @ 11:01 pm Tim Schmoyer said:
    • Dear Jesus, I repent of my sin. Please come into my heart and be the Lord of my life. Amen. ;)

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  9. On August 26, 2008 @ 6:45 am Greg said:
    • Tim…you make me laugh!

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  10. On August 26, 2008 @ 12:57 pm SaraBeth said:
    • Hey Greg, keep preaching the gospel (of grace). Be bold yet winsome. It’s hard doing youth ministry when a lot of resources and speakers muddle the gospel. Dare2Share has been a great support to my ministry, and I pray that it would remain so. God bless you!

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  11. On August 27, 2008 @ 9:15 pm Guy Reynolds said:
    • Hello Greg,
      Had a small question: In the Dare to share aticle:My Difficult friend,you are pretty solid Biblically until you use the Gospel;you do not mention Repentance(turning from sin) It is essential to salvation. It was the first words recorded by Jesus in the book of Mark…also It’s what John the Baptist came proclaiming,Paul on the day of Pentecost preached repentance. You have the trust in Jesus part down,but without Biblical repentance or Godly sorrow(2 Cor 7:9-10) there is NO true conversion. I hope you consider this and I thank you for your time.

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  12. On August 28, 2008 @ 4:23 pm Mark said:
    • Steve, your will is captured by sin and Satan before you become a Christian. You cannot do good. Therefore God has to save you entirely. A slave cannot save himself. But, I think there is a valid point in all this, Greg, would you not say there is a risk of easy believerism?

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  13. On August 28, 2008 @ 4:24 pm Mark said:
    • Oh, and re: my above comment, I’d define easy beliverism as something along the lines of “if you say these magic words, you’re saved”.

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  14. On August 30, 2008 @ 8:55 am Greg Stier said:
    • Hey all, great conversation. As for repentance I beleive it is absolutely essential for salvation but it is probably the MOST mistranslated word in the Bible. The NT word for repentance is “metaneo” which means “to perceive differently afterwards” or, a more common translation “to change your mind.” So when talking in the context of sin it means to change your mind about that sin. But when talking about salvation it means to change your mind about what you are trusting in (good deeds).

      To repent is to believe and to believe is to repent.It’s two ways of describing the same thing…relying on Jesus’s work instead of our own. That’s why it’s used interchangeably throughout the NT. If repent is a separate act from salvation then John missed it when he wrote the book of John. He uses the word “believe” 98xs and doesn’t use the word “repent” once. What’s interesting is that this is the only book in the Bible written to a completely unbelieving crowd (John 20:31). If repentance and faith aren’t synonomous then it would seem that John the apostle preached an incomplete gospel.

      But he didn’t…and we aren’t. It’s those who add works to salvation under the guise of a misinterpretation of the word “repent” who are perverting the gospel of grace.

      We repent (change our minds) when we believe (trust in; rely upon) Jesus based on what He did for us on the cross and we are saved. He then comes into our lives and changes us from the inside out (turns us from our sins) day after day. But he doesn’t begin that work of spiritual transforamtion until He’s working from the inside (Philippians 2:12-13) and He doesn’t get on the inside until we trust in Him for our salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14).

      Who loves ya!

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  15. On August 31, 2008 @ 12:49 am Melinda said:
    • Greg,

      Just read your post from “Awkward Conversations”. You quoted 2 Timothy 2:24-26. Thank you so much for this! I have been praying to God to help me handle some real difficult situations with two particular people who are involved in our youth (as a youth and another as a parent). God is great! The judging part of my human nature has been pulling me towards boldly confronting these individuals, however, after reading 2 Timothy 2:24-26 I truly believe that God is telling me to love them despite their quarrelsome nature and show them mercy and patience instead of resentment and frustration. If it be God’s will, He will bring them back around and He will guide them back to His way. My prayer is that I will not hinder His work in their lives, but enhance His great work!

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  16. On August 31, 2008 @ 9:31 pm Sarah said:
    • Hi Greg,

      Thanks for your post and no.14 comment on faith and repentance. Unfortunately, I’m still really confused on how to give a true and complete gospel presentation. I’ve been listening to John MacArthur’s “Gospel According to Jesus” series and am wondering what your thoughts are on it, specifically, the idea that the definition of repentance means to turn from sin. As a youth leader, I’m freaked about about the possibility of teaching the wrong message to students.

      Also, have you written anything on the topic of eternal security that you could point me to? Thanks-
      Thanks-

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  17. On September 1, 2008 @ 6:40 pm Steve said:
    • Greg

      You said
      “If repentance and faith aren’t synonomous then it would seem that John the apostle preached an incomplete gospel.”
      Then you go on to use scripture from other books.

      Why is it that when it is convenient for you that you quote from other books but when someone else quotes from other books and you don’t like it you just say “Well it’s not in John”?

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  18. On September 3, 2008 @ 8:50 am Eddie said:
    • Steve,

      I’m not speaking for Greg, but here’s my thoughts about your question.

      Apples and oranges.

      When you open a newspaper and want to find out who won the Denver Bronco football game, do you go to the business section? There’s alot of great articles in there. Very informative on business and stocks and everything dealing with money. Or do you go to the sports section?

      And in the sports section, do you go to the article on the Packer/Bears game? Great article and gives all the stats from that game. Might even comment on the Bronco’s but in the context of an example rather than subject matter. Or do you go to the article or box score from the actual Bronco game you are interested in?

      John is the salvation book of the Bible. It claims to be so. No other book makes that claim. There is no need to read John and then head off to another book to find out “more” about how to be saved. John has it all covered. That’s the point of the book.

      The discussion was about the lowest common denominator in salvation and if repent is necessary. Since the other books are written to Christians (believers, those who are already saved), in an effort to help them grow spiritually, other things are included in the discussion and at times we can become confused concerning what is necessary as a result.

      John does not include anything else in the discussion. He’s writing to help people understand how to be saved and Greg pointed that out accurately.

      The definition of repent matches that of believe. When we first believe in something, we just repented from whatever we previously thought. We changed our mind, we repented.

      And yes it is convenient that John gave it to us specifically for this reason and says so. To show us how to be saved. What do the other books of the Bible being quoted claim they are written to and for? That should be considered before using the quotes.

      It’s making sure the passage being used is actually covering the topic being discussing.

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  19. On September 4, 2008 @ 9:05 pm Steve said:
    • Eddie,

      I do not agree that “The definition of repent matches that of believe.” If that were the case then according to James the demons have repented because they believe (James 2:19).

      So Peter required more when he was asked “what they needed to do to be saved” and he said
      Acts 2:38
      Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

      Ananias was wrong when he told Paul (Saul) Acts 22:16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’
      Implying baptism is what would wash away his sins.

      Paul did not believe repentance and faith to be the same when he said:
      acts 20:21 testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

      Paul said it is through baptism that we put on Christ, Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ

      Peter must have been wrong when he said: 1 Peter 3:21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

      The author of Hebrews must have been wrong when he talked about moving past the basics and described the basics as (Hebrews 6:1-3)
      1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will[a] do if God permits.

      Again the Hebrew write draws a distinction between Repentance and Faith.

      SO I understand John is the Faith book, but can you ignore the rest of the bible because of it? I don’t think so. There must have been an understanding of what Faith meant that is more than we understand it today. To the believers of the New Testament Times Faith meant a Repentant Faith and a Believer was ALWAYS a baptized believer. Should we look at it any differently today?

      I like Philip & the eunuch. The eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
      When was the last time you explained the Gospel Message such that the first question someone ask is “What hinders me from being baptized?” before they have expressed faith? Does that emphasize the important of Baptism or what.

      The more I learn about Christ the more I believe that if Christ does not change your life you are not a true believer. To say all you have to do is “have faith only” cheapens the Gospel Message and cheapens the Sacrifice Christ made on the cross.
      The Demons believe “have faith” that Christ is who he said he was but still are not going to heaven. Why should we believe we are better then angles by saying all you need to do is believe Jesus is God?

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