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15 Comments for 'A sermon that made me think'

1. On December 3, 2007 @ 11:55 pm Dave Miers said:

   • driscoll has some great insights on the emerging church and the emergent guys.

     it’s good hearing his reflections as someone who has been a part of things with the emergent guys - but now distances himself for theological reasons.

     driscoll is very good at engaging with a changing culture - yet holding unswervingly to unchanging truths of the gospel.

     peaceout
     dave

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2. On December 4, 2007 @ 1:23 pm Janna - Laurel UMC Montana said:

   • Whoa…I’m going to google half of the things he said because I felt like I was being blasted with a whole bunch of new names, info and theological debate.

     Man. I want to know what you think about Emergent (Village?) Church and if you have met any of the guys Mark talked about.

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3. On December 4, 2007 @ 6:28 pm Will Bratina said:

   • Hey, Greg. Listened to Mark’s sermon and he sounds amazingly like you. Absolute Truth shared with His Love. I’m just an insurance guy who like to fish, and the ‘emergent church’ reminded me of what we fly-fishin’ guys call ‘emergers’.
     “Emerger Flies represent insects as the emerge from the bottom of the water to the surface. As they emerge they are vulnerable to fish. Match the hatch correctly and you’re going to have a field day with emerger flies.” (definition from Riverbum.com flyfishing site).

     This is not to say the the emergent church leadership is filled with ‘bottomfeeders’, but according to 2 Peter 2:1, ” But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.”
     Also seems that as they help their followers emerge they ALL will be vulnerable not to fish, but to Satan, who loves to devour misled Christians more than I love to devour my wife’s ‘Better than Anything’ cake.
     And finally, if we as Christians “match the hatch correctly” as Paul did in Acts 17, our Holy Spirit can lead them from destruction to Life, as he has done and continues to do in my life.

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4. On December 5, 2007 @ 10:24 am scochenour said:

   • Greg- I’m going to go back and listen to that podcast again. It’s been a few months since I’ve listened to it and I want be a bit moreinformed before I post a real comment. But I will say this. Driscol is pretty deep in reformation theology, so then I wonder if I too would be labeled a heritic if I don’t believe in the 5 points. I do remember thinking “I think Mark is right on with some of the things that he said.” I’ll give it another listen and post again.

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5. On December 5, 2007 @ 12:06 pm Matthew McNutt said:

   • Just finished listening to it … I enjoyed it, but I didn’t agree with all of his conclusions. It felt like he was reaching a big with some of his examples; referring to Rob Bell’s illustration of the virgin birth was slightly out of context, and he left out some of the other aspects of that illustration. Don’t get me wrong - I was incredibly offended when I was reading Bell’s book and came to that section - but how he wrapped it up to make the point he was making I thought made it a powerful tool. Some of the degree to which he was taking stuff by McClaren, Jones and Miller seemed a stretch to me as well. I guess I’m struggling with the whole emerging movement and ideas coming from it; some of it really resonates with me, and I feel like it puts into words some of the wonderings I have about how sure we conservatives seem to present ourselves at time. I certainly don’t take the questioning as far as some emergents, but I’m not sure that it is as terrifying a thing as some make it out to be.

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6. On December 5, 2007 @ 2:01 pm Chris Davis said:

   • Yeah man… I heard this message a while back I seriously am now a Mark Driscoll fan. Don’t totally agree with all of his thoughts… but for the most part his teachings are very solid!

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7. On December 5, 2007 @ 10:04 pm Greg Stier said:

   • Great comments all. I have heard some of the guys that Mark mentioned and “dialogued” with one of them personally for three painful hours(I’ll let you guess which one…it wasn’t pleasant.) I am genuinely concerned about whether the direction of much of the emergent movement is in line with the plain and simple truths of Scripture. It seems that there is an obsession with the red letters of the gospels (as if the Spirit of Jesus inspired words of Paul, Peter and James were less inspired by God), a de-emphasis of the core creedal truths of the historical church and an obsession with high brow philosophy and hipster neo-orthodoxy. Karl Barth and the boys would be proud. I appreciate the creative approaches to ministry, prayer, worship, creation care and serving the poor. But creativity is no substitute for truth. I know there are those in the emergent movement who are seeking to stay faithful to the Scriptures in their quest to be more relevant. I like those guys just fine and applaud their efforts. May their tribe increase. But those who are bouncing on the trampoline of elastic theology instead of resting on the solid foundation of truth I have little tolerance for. To me they are distracting the church from its calling and being used to blog confusion into the minds of many Christians.

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8. On December 5, 2007 @ 11:43 pm Gary W. Cox said:

   • Hey Greg, me again, you know as I said before, doctrine is extremely important, for it shapes our lives. I can explain what I mean if you want, but, I tried the link and I think it may have expired. I tried to find Mr. Driscoll’s sermon but couldn’t. Now I’ve never been a “fan” so to speak of Mr. Driscoll, but I want to understand something before I pass judgment… maybe you know where else I may find it? I hope all is well with you.
     Blessings Greg.

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9. On December 6, 2007 @ 6:19 am Greg Stier said:

   • Hey Gary, I found it originally on itunes…maybe try googling him and adding Convergence or Southeastern. That’s where he was when he preached it. Hope that helps!

   • Permalink to Greg Stier's comment

10. On December 7, 2007 @ 11:21 am Janna - Laurel UMC Montana said:

    • Gary — I’ve been able to get to it through the link above (http://www.sebts.edu/Convergent/GeneralInfo/) and have listened to it several times over the past three days.

      I admit that I have had to do TONS of research over the past few days. Being a Methodist, I was less than educated on the terms Emergent Village, Convergence, the differences in theology between Relevance and Revisionists. I was blown away by some of the info I have found (thank you wikipedia, Google and the blog world) and I am struggling with a lot of internal theological debate.

      I’m going to be blunt here. There are times that I wish Christianity was black and white. I wish that I didn’t feel like I have to choose between two sides. Am I emergent or convergent? Am I right or left? Am I a Democrat or Republican and does it matter to God? What is right and what is wrong? How do I know that when I am watching a NOOMA video, or listening to my pastor, or at a youth conference, and my heart says “Yes, I agree with that statement or dialog” that I am not just falling pray to one person’s interpretation that could very well be considered wrong by one side or the other. Am I being molded by false prophets? How will I know?

      I wish that when God speaks I could just obey and not converse (as Mr. Driscoll proposes). However, in my struggle to really truly KNOW what I believe so that I can OWN my faith and SHARE it with others while I LIVE it every day… I have to have conversational debates. I have to look at the Bible and try and figure out what it is really trying to teach me. I believe that Scripture is the TRUTH and that it is here to guide me, but what if the translations and interpretations given by pastors, speakers and bloggers are not in correlation with what God intended?

      I am literally trapped in that gray area and I cannot be an effective youth leader if I don’t truly know where I stand on these issues. The positive is that I am committed to finding answers to these questions but it could very well take my entire life to find all of the answers.
      What say you?

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11. On December 7, 2007 @ 11:36 am Janna - Laurel UMC Montana said:

    • One last thing, I know that I am commanded to guard my heart against evil but at the same time I cannot trust the heart either!

      Proverbs 4:23 “Guard your heart more than anything else, because the source of your life flows from it.”

      Matthew 15:19 “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.”

      How do I disern what is true and what is false if my heart will deceive me?

    • Permalink to Janna - Laurel UMC Montana's comment

12. On December 7, 2007 @ 12:45 pm Chris said:

    • I was fortuante to be at the delivery of this sermon and have to admit that I was actually surprised. i had heard drisoll share a lot of this through books/sermons but this message seemed to come from a much more humble spirit that some of the stuff I have seen/read in the past (i think the guy sometimes gets a bad rap). If you listen to the first conference piece by J.D. Greear I think you will be inspired as well.

      This sermon emphasised why it is so important that we train our young people to read the bible and struggle with it for themselves so that they do not fall into this new deception. I grew up as a PK and could probably discuss biblical topics but could not effectively articulate MY beliefs until a personal, extensive study three years ago (i reccomend Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem).

      A few years ago I read “A New Kind of Christian” by Brian Mclaren and it really helped me se some things in a diifferent light. The next book in the series talked of Creation. it had some good points but began exploring some things that I could not agree with. The last book in the series presents an indepth denial of the exentance of hell which is scary. I was left with the impression that a fourth book (had it been written) would have excused the homosexual lifestyle.

      I said all of that to say this. I think we are seeing a generation of people that in “being relevant” are finding for themselves teachers who tell them what they want to hear (2 Tim 4:3). I have heard such statements as “that is the kind of God I want to serve.” We need to emphasise one interpretation and many applications.

      Thoughts??

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13. On December 7, 2007 @ 6:11 pm Will Bratina said:

    • Hey, Janna (started to type Laurel…). OOPS!
      I am a far cry from a theologian, yet I know the Miracles He Has Worked in my life.
      I have had a TON of personal experience with this lying heart that is within me. And I am ashamed (and yet I boast in Jesus) to admit in past experience I have believed many lies this fleshly heart has enticed me with. One of the biggest lies I bought into was that pornography was a victimless sin, therefore not a sin. Satan had me in those chains for YEARS! Pornography almost destroyed my marriage, my family and my life, and I finally realized that only Christ could free me from this stinkin’ bondage. He accomplished this Miracle through other guys that would encourage me and hold me accountable. He accomplished this Miracle through burdening my heart with the overwhelming desire to read and learn and rip this heart open that His Holy Word might purge and heal and overflow to others. He accomplished this Miracle through guiding me to godly authors like John Eldredge and Joyce Meyers and Tommy Tenney (guess I can throw Greg in there, too). I was doing a Beth Moore study with my wife and came across the Epitome of Who Jesus is to me, when Jesus through Isaiah in 61:1-2 foretold, “The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners, 2 to proclaim the year of the LORD’s favor…”. And then Jesus Himself Speaks these same words to me in Luke 4:18-19! Tears roll down my face as I STILL realize how much I- we- need His Love as we are the poor, we are the brokenhearted, we are the captives, we are the prisoners, we are the blind who can now see through Him.
      Does my heart still lie to me, my friend? You bet! Every day…yet Christ’s Truth Overcomes….Praise Jesus Christ, He Will Have Victory in the Ultimate UFC Grudge Match.
      Praying for you and all of us as Christ’s Holy Bride, His Church, that He Continues to Reveal His Truth.
      Praying that our Awesome God Provides you a godly friend(s) that will encourage, chastize, and exhort you and you them in the Holy Love that is only found in Jesus Christ.

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